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Topic: Tom Brevoort on the original ending to UNCANNY X-MEN 137 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 2:06am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

There are some cases where characters "really died" for a considerable amount of time, but the original writers said they had a way to bring them back written into the original story. Iron Fist, Barry Allen, and Professor X come to mind.
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Gwen Stacy's death always seemed suspect to me.  The fact that she was unconscious (or even dead?) when the Green Goblin threw her off the bridge and that, therefore, she didn't speak or show her personality in any way was very suspicious.  And then the SAME WRITER introduced her clone (or "clone"?) during the same writing stint made me wonder as a 9 year-old kid (and maybe still) if it was a trick of some sort (by the writer and/or the villain).  I guess I always expected Gerry Conway or someone to reveal that that Gwen clone who walked off into the sunset was the real Gwen Stacy after all and it was a clone thrown from the bridge.

So, there's a death that has still stuck almost fifty years later that I never expected to stick.

Question to the group (I've missed some things): Has any writer ever attempted (like they did with "Peter" and the whole Ben Reilly thing) to bring back the real Gwen (as the "clone" or otherwise)?


Edited by Eric Jansen on 08 September 2021 at 4:35am
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 5:15am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Wasnt it the real one JMS used that had the affair with Norman
Osbourne?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Bucky Barnes (1963, though the event was retconned to have happened in 1944)

Bucky's death was always in 1944. No retcon involved. Check AVENGERS 4.

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Steven Myers
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Interestingly, Avengers 4 erased the post-WWII Captain America and Bucky (that Stan wrote I believe), including Bucky's post-WWII death. I've never read any of these stories, however. Wonder if they exist in any reprint format?
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Interestingly, Avengers 4 erased the post-WWII Captain America and Bucky (that Stan wrote I believe), including Bucky's post-WWII death.

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Steve Englehart covered that in his first arc in his Captain America run with the evil Captain America and Bucky.
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Colin Ian Campbell
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Glenn Talbot briefly returned from the afterlife in Incredible Hulks [sic] #619-620 (2011)

That was a Life Model Decoy, so Talbot has remained dead.
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A Talbot LMD featured in Jeph Loeb's Red Hulk storyline, but it was the real Talbot who briefly came back in Greg Pak's story before returning to the grave.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 08 September 2021 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Greg McPhee wrote:
Steve Englehart covered that in his first arc in his Captain America run with the evil Captain America and Bucky.

Englehart only covered 50s Cap.  Roy Thomas was the one to cover the late 40s in the original What If? #4.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 4:49am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Tangent: forgive me if I don't fully grasp the retcon term... 

Bucky was definitely not killed off either in the 40s original comics or even in the brief return of the 50s. It was in AVENGERS #4 that we learned he died. But since that was the first time we learned that he died, how could it be a retcon? Doesn't a retcon actively change what we knew so that now what we knew becomes what we thought we knew? Is Bucky's death, rather, a kind of "passive" retcon -- or as JB said, not a retcon at all, since it's not a change of what we knew but an addition...? Isn't any addition, even if a character is dormant for a long time not a retcon but a standard continuation of the character's story?
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"Englehart only covered 50s Cap.  Roy Thomas was the one to cover the late 40s in the original What If? #4."

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Another tangent - how did a WHAT IF? story end up being considered canon? Doesn't that go against the purpose of that series?
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'm sorry, I guess Bucky was not killed, but rather seriously wounded and replaced in the 1950's. As I said above, I haven't read the stories. According to my online research, he was replaced by Betsy Ross/Golden Girl.


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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 11 post reply


 QUOTE:
how did a WHAT IF? story end up being considered canon? Doesn't that go against the purpose of that series?

The one that introduced Spider-Girl seems to be canon now... Peter and Mary Jane Parker's 'future' daughter. It sure gets priced high enough!
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

All "What If?"s are canonically in another reality... And Spider-Girl is just too much fun, but it's still an alternate reality.

Issue 4, with the All-Winner's Squad became cannon when Roy Thomas realized it could be. But I've never read it, only heard about it.
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