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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3826
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 2:04am | IP Logged | 1
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Interesting article about DC and Marvel comics in the 90ies. Well, interesting in the sense that I'm reminded of what drove me away from mainstream comics early that decade. I mean, check out that Wonder Woman "costume". Unlike the article, I don't remember those times fondly.
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David Teller
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Joined: 05 June 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 2:44am | IP Logged | 2
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As a teenager, New Mutants/Cable brought me into US Comics and Heroes Reborn took me out! Yes
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Philippe Negrin
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Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 4:22am | IP Logged | 3
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Horrible times for comics. I simply stopped reading US comics.Only JB's NextMen brought me back.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 4:38am | IP Logged | 4
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The 90s saw the rise to dominance of the Direct Sales Market--mostly because of runaway greed on the part of the publishers--and, of course, the rise of Image. Both of these were big nails in the coffin of a comicbook industry that was failing fast and desperate for anything that looked like salvation.I predicted dire ends, but it actually took longer than I expected.
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Shawn Kane
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Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 5
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So many things listed in that article that made me quit reading comics...to me, the early 90's represented bad art, not just in design but in storytelling as well. Not to mention the convoluted crossovers, the killing off of characters to sell comics or make something "important". Many superhero comics of the time were just ugly books.
But, like any other era, that period has it's fans who swear comics were never better.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 19 June 2021 at 6:42am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 6
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A few decades ago I had a chat with a higher up (but younger than me) at Marvel who swore the Seventies were the true Golden Age of the company. Now, I started at Marvel in the Seventies, and I have long maintained that one of the main reasons I rose to prominence as swiftly as I did was the sheer volume of utter dross being spewed forth by the House of Ideas. I was at best a second rate talent, but surrounded as I was by third, fourth, even fifth rate artists I positively shone. I sucked, but I didn’t suck as badly as those others. Talking to that editor, I realized it was the characters that were the salvation of the company. No matter how badly they were being handled—and in some cases it was very badly—at their core they were still the characters created by Stan and Jack and Steve. I can’t really say that about the 90s. So much that was being produced was the visual equivalent of fingernails on a blackboard.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4525
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| Posted: 19 June 2021 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 7
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I think there were a lot of artists surfacing who taught themselves solely by studying comics made by people who taught themselves partly by studying comics by people who could really draw. Perhaps the same applies to writers?
There were some very good comics I'm finding from the early '90s and the late '90s... but 1993-1997 does seem to have a high ratio of awfulness. Also you would have to put up with computer coloring and lettering more in the late '90s which sometimes can be handled badly, but there was bad coloring and lettering before computers got involved. I'd say DC had the better average on quality but Marvel had some higher highs and much lower lows.
I would hear about this Liefeld guy in the '90s but it went in one ear and out the other as I wasn't buying superhero comics and didn't enter comic shops much at all either. I did notice from afar hulk-sized muscles and either insanely grinning or grimacing/straining at stool faces on creatures like Venom and Lobo, and heap-big guns on Punisher and I guess Cable (though I didn't know the name then). It was very repellent... who wants to be seen associating with this kind of thing? Throw in some garbage 'adult' porn type comics with big-eyed multi-colored characters with and without fur and jeeeeeeziz. The black-bagged Superman landmark of history b.s. was the investor bait pinnacle and I still have never even read that having even avoided the direct aftermath comics. It's like the seasons of Doctor Who with Colin Baker, I would just as soon skip them entirely... let's pretend Peter Davison regenerates directly into Sylvester McCoy! :^)
Well some highlights off the top of my head from the early '90s... the Superman titles I've seen seem very well done including the protoplasm being Supergirl, and Wonder Woman by Perez and sometimes Byrne. The Spider-titles are a bit more tread carefully but there are some solid stories, and I really enjoy the DeMatteis with Sal Buscema Spectaculars. John Byrne on Avengers West Coast, Namor, and with Paul Ryan on Iron Man. Englehart and Lim on Silver Surfer. Thor/Thunderstrike by DeFalco and Frenz/Sinnott is quite good.
Late '90s/early 2000s you have X-Men: Hidden Years, Lost Generation and Hippolyta/Wonder Woman by Byrne, also Spider-Woman III with Bart Sears, Avengers by Busiek and Perez, Iron Man and Captain America are generally quite good around this time Chen or Zircher on the former, Jurgens and one of the younger Kuberts on the latter as the best, Thunderbolts with Bagley art. Anything with Alan Davis but beware X titles without him. I do like Generation X once the Dodsons are on the art, and X-Force with Jim Cheung. Larry Hama is in there as writer someplace. A Legion restart by Waid and Kitson was enjoyable, plus Shooter returns and is quite good, but then an abrupt cancellation brings that to a close at an even fifty issues. The DeFalco & Frenz and others 'M2' titles are also enjoyable for quite awhile.
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20 June 2021 at 1:48am | IP Logged | 8
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"A few decades ago I had a chat with a higher up (but younger than me) at Marvel who swore the Seventies were the true Golden Age of the company."
I have to say, I loved (and love) Marvel and DC of the 70's! I started reading the super-heroes in 1975, with Curt Swan on SUPERMAN, Steve Englehart & Sal Buscema on CAPTAIN AMERICA & AVENGERS (later with Perez!), the new X-MEN right from the start, BATMAN (DETECTIVE COMICS) with Len Wein & Jim Aparo, Steve Gerber & Sal Buscema (and especially Klaus Janson inking) on DEFENDERS, and soon there was Englehart & Marshall Rogers on DETECTIVE, Claremont & Byrne on MARVEL TEAM-UP and X-MEN, and more!
But don't forget--the 70's were full of reprint series too! Through MARVEL TALES and the rest, I was also reading Lee & Romita on SPIDER-MAN, Lee & Kirby on FANTASTIC FOUR, THOR, and CAPTAIN AMERICA, and special editions made it pretty easy to read Lee & Ditko's SPIDER-MAN and DR. STRANGE and O'Neil & Adams' great BATMAN stories! And back issues were fairly cheap and easy to find too!
The 70's were MY Golden Age...because it also included the 60's!
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Craig Earl
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Joined: 13 July 2019
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| Posted: 20 June 2021 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 9
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For me, as a Marvel guy, the mid 90's was an X- book and Spider-clone overload. We saw the rise of variant covers (something I loathe) and every other book seemed to have pneumatic females with ten inch waists.
With only the odd exception, I thought the writing was awful during this period.
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Shawn Kane
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Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 20 June 2021 at 5:25am | IP Logged | 10
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I admit I like the Heroes Return period (Avengers, X-Men: The Hidden Years, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Thunderbolts and Heroes for Hire) and the MC2. But most of those books had creative teams that I enjoyed previously and trusted. Then Quesada and Jemas came in and "saved" Marvel and it's been reboots, retcons, and re-designing ever sense.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
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| Posted: 20 June 2021 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 11
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Stuff I like from the 90s:
Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade (diminishing return on the sequels, but still felt like classic Marvel) What If? vol. 2 JB's She-Hulk Howard Mackie's run on Danny Ketch Ghost Rider New Warriors Guardians of the Galaxy The Sandman Ron Marz run on Kyle Rayner Green Lantern Chuck Dixon run on Tim Drake Robin James Robinson's Starman Karl Kesel's Superboy X-Men: Age of Apocalypse Grant Morrison run on JLA Batman: The Long Halloween Thunderbolts Christopher Priest run on Black Panther Mark Waid/Ron Garney run on Captain America Kurt Busiek/George Perez run on Avengers
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Vishwas Aragam
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Joined: 01 August 2007
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| Posted: 20 June 2021 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 12
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I was a kid in the early 90s. 91-95/96 was my heyday of reading
comics. Whenever it comes up how someone thinks the comics from
then were bad, I’m reminded how much I loved them.
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