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Topic: Hardest superhero to write (hold the reality, please) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I don't think the issue is necessarily a belief that faithful adaptations are guaranteed to fail (Spiderman 2 is a pretty good example).

•••

Well, now I’m just sad.

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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Personally, I LOVED around the first hour of SPIDER-MAN 2. It did seem very faithful (and I don't even recall a hint of the biological web-shooters). But then he inexplicably lost his powers mid-swing because reasons, and it completely went downhill from there - and ending with the villain saving the day!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The complete reinventing of Doc Ock’s backstory and personality kinda pokes a pin in the notion of the movie being “faithful”.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Not to derail the thread, but Doc Ock was the absolute worst thing about Spider-Man 2. It's like the inverse of "Iron Goblin".
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

They basically used the Doc Ock model for Norman Osborne, so.....
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John Wickett
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The complete reinventing of Doc Ock’s backstory and personality kinda pokes a pin in the notion of the movie being “faithful”.

True.  I was just referring to the movie's depiction of Spiderman.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

...Spiderman...

••

AAAHHHHGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 15 April 2021 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I hear you guys, very insightful views all around.

I'm gonna stop with the answering of particular statements and stuff because it's boring and needlessly confrontational.

In my case, I'm a huge Batman and Superman fan and feel very strongly about their "no killing" rule. The rule is fundamental to their respective character identities, in my view.

But it's true that someone trying to contradict that could easily point out examples of golden age comics, the Burton and Nolan machine guns and the recent Snyder aberrations.

I'm not such a big Marvel fan, nor a Hulk fan in particular. Yet I've always seen him as "different" to traditional heroes, and I think that was pretty much the point of his creation: "What if the traditional monster from the monster comics was the hero instead?"

And I like the concept a lot, but it raises a lot of issues if you want to see him generating a lot of mass destruction as this kind of monster is wont to do.

So, the aforementioned confusion shared by the comic sites, some very important Marvel writers, YouTubers and such.

I guess I just don't get "why" it's so important to establish that a character such as The Hulk doesn't kill people while characters as Wolverine, Punisher and dare I say, Captain America (sorry, don't want to get into another mess) do and everything's fine.

I accept the Greg Pak rationalization, but for most people watching the movies and reading the recent comics, The Hulk does kill people apparently. Unless someone explains them otherwise. And that means there's a problem there.






 


Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 16 April 2021 at 1:33am
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 16 April 2021 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The Punisher, to me, is not a hero even if he is killing the worst of the worst. If he drops in on a criminal operation and just starts shooting people there's always a chance he kills someone who is undercover so he's reckless in that regard. Wolverine is more interesting when he resists the urge to kill but writers the last thirty years or so have wanted the "cool" factor to give him a huge body count. 

The moment that the Hulk picks up a car, throws it at Abomination, misses and hits a crowd of innocent bystanders trying to get out of the way, he is no longer a hero. He's as much a menace as Abomination and the forces who want to kill him are completely justified.

Ultimately, if a writer decides to tell a story where the hero kills, that's THEIR decision because they didn't have to write it.


Edited by Shawn Kane on 16 April 2021 at 4:55am
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Craig Earl
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Posted: 16 April 2021 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


...Spiderman...

••

AAAHHHHGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

----

Let me guess, Spider-Man?

I remembering reading that Stan loved the fact that he was hyphenated

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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 April 2021 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

As a Jewish New Yorker, Stan would probably have heard Spiderman as “Spidermun”.

Cue FRIENDS reference.

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 16 April 2021 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

How The Punisher got read as a hero by many is pretty much the same as how Rambo in First Blood did. I still do not understand it at all. Charles Bronson in Deathwish I can understand but they didn't sell Bronson pajamas and action-figures either.

Spider-Man
Spider-Woman
Sub-Mariner
Man-Thing
Man-Wolf

...it's the Marvel way!

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