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Topic: Hardest superhero to write (hold the reality, please) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 12:21am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

It’s one of the things I hated about Man of Steel (the movie)

Snyder seemed to go out of his way to emphasis that people were in
those buildings both Superman & Zod were wrecking.
He was making a Miracleman issue 15 movie, but set in the DC
universe
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 2:50am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The idea that the Hulk kills people during his comic book rampages is stupid. 

*sigh*

We were having a nice, informative (for me at least) discussion and you had to throw around words like "stupid" and make me google and stuff.




(The title of that last article is disingenuous, the conclusion that it arrives to is "Yes, a lot")


Those links (again, very quick search) are from what I'd say are respectable outlets like CBR, Looper and Bleeding Cool written by people who one could assume know their comics. 

Is it debatable? I imagine it very much is, that was what we were attempting to do here ourselves after all.

Should he kill? Most folks here said no, I personally find it a bit of a stretch that he doesn't as I've already said but if that's the canon, I'll accept it. That Greg Pak thing is kinda weird, but good enough if that's the way Marvel wants to go.

But if the issue raises some reasonable confusion on these aforementioned specialized outlets and superstar Marvel writers of the time like Bendis and Millar I can definitely conclude the idea or question is not "stupid".

Maybe you're projecting.


Marvel's Incredible Hulk movie does not have the Hulk killing anybody.

Fun little compendium of kills by The Hulk in MCU movies, only two minutes long:


The grand total it arrives to is 79.

About 30 of those are aliens and robots so I don't know if that's entirely fair. But at least, in a funny little joke near the end, it doesn't count Loki.

Of course it's just a fun fan made video, there are many more like it. The final numbers they all arrive to are on a similar range, though. I didn't encounter a single one that said "zero" or anything remotely like that (I'll concede that would make for a pretty boring video).

Anyway, thanks for playing!











 



Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 13 April 2021 at 3:23am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 4:40am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Snyder seemed to go out of his way to emphasis that people were in those buildings both Superman & Zod were wrecking.He was making a Miracleman issue 15 movie, but set in the DC universe

••

It's all disaster-porn now. Obviously, Superman could have pushed Zod into space, or the middle of the Sahara, or anywhere else there were no civilians in danger. But where's the FUN in that?

Perhaps it's an after-effect of 9/11. That was the closest any of us are ever likely to get to a supervillain attack. It showed us what it would "really" look like and it didn't tale long for Hollywood to make a motif out of it.

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Jeffrey Rice
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Those links (again, very quick search) are from what I'd say are respectable outlets like CBR, Looper and Bleeding Cool written by people who one could assume know their comics. 

----
Well, there is a major flaw right there. 
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Had Snyder done a MIRACLEMAN movie that would've been much preferable to MAN OF STEEL. It also would've required an R rating. The companies are increasingly not willing to go "more mature" than PG-13.

(Granted, Snyder's WATCHMEN was a bad movie. But I suspect any film version of WATCHMEN would've been bad.)
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Joe S. Walker
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

If people want a realistic story about the consequences of buildings being destroyed, it might be an idea to leave the green-skinned rage-monster out of it.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

If you're going to ask if the Hulk is responsible for any deaths, you'd better get your English phrasing right*. 

Has anyone ever died due to the Hulk's actions? Maybe. Even probably.

Has the Hulk ever killed anyone? He's surely been angry enough to - but I don't recall any of the "classic" Hulk stories where he succeeded. Although he surely has tried to save lives.

Has the Hulk ever murdered anyone? No. He may have wanted to (e.g., Namor, Ben Grimm, Thor) but I don't believe so.

But the paradigm shift - "The Hulk is killing and eating people" - holds up about as well as "Captain America kicked a harmless Bruce Banner in the head."

Mr. Byrne is right - never blame a character for bad writing and story telling by an author.

And let's remember that THIS IS COMIC BOOKS. Dying is NOT supposed to be an outcome, except in the most extreme of circumstances - or in the new and bastardized crap. If you like snuff porn or death entertainment, comic books absolutely should not be your source. Does that make them comics difficult to believe? Are you asking if it's hard to believe literature in which men can fly, lift autos, crawl on walls, project energy blasts from suits of futuristic armor or jewelry, and run faster than the speed of sound... then maybe, just maybe, that's part of the problem.

And to answer my own question - I think the Hulk is really hard to write for. Ditto Man-Thing. And Bizarro. Characters that are retarded in their thinking and reasoning, or completely mindless are awfully difficult to get a feel for or point of view.

*No insult to our non-American readers. I think you know what I mean.

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Rodrigo, that kill count video is not very persuasive. Someone falls over. Kill count goes up. Someone loses a trainer. Kill count goes up. The most life threatening thing I saw was the flames of a helicopter (runs on jet fuel) engulfing Betty Ross -- who survived.

Movie rules: people don't die from blunt trauma impact. Usually takes a bullet in the head.
Comic book rules: no one has died unless the writer makes a point of saying someone has died. Generally speaking, you can assume no one dies from the inadvertent actions of a hero doing his stuff.
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Let's be clear: I've said the Hulk doesn't kill innocent bystanders. He has killed certain opponents, but villains fighting the Hulk are NOT innocent bystanders.

The question was does the Hulk's rampages kill innocent bystanders. Answer: No.
Separate question: does the Hulk occasionally kill certain opponents? Answer: yes. It's by choice and rare, and the Hulk personas that choose to kill are not the mindless, or child-level intelligence/Hulk-smash, personas. They don't go on rampages and destroy towns and cities. Towns and cities do get destroyed when these smarter versions are defending themselves from villain's attack.

Understanding that when Black Adam knocks Superman across the city and through multiple buildings, that nobody died, that when the Avengers battle the U-foes right downtown with lots of property destruction that nobody dies, but NOT understanding that when the Hulk throws a tank that shows the occupants bailed out in time, through a building, NOBODY died, well, yes, that is stupid.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 13 April 2021 at 9:53am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Used to be finding the traditional tropes “stupid” was a cue it was time to find another hobby.
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 13 April 2021 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don't think it's that simple - to be completely fair, even very young kids have been getting more jaded and cynical for many years now.  They question EVERYTHING - as we all know kids do.  The traditional tropes haven't cut it for a long time.  We just don't want to accept it.

Marc


Edited by Marc Baptiste on 13 April 2021 at 12:34pm
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 14 April 2021 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I have to say the Hulk comics I knew ('70s-'80s,) and the TV show leaves me to think of him as one of the all-time greatest characters in comics. Yes, he's a Jekyll & Hyde in some ways, but there a lot more to him... the childlike ID aspect that Hyde didn't have, and the trapped Banner trying to be responsible in situations definitely not helping him. There should never be a lack of writers to find ways to play with the big green menace, and he has had some very genuinely touching stories in those years, up there with the best '60s-'70s Batman I think. I've seen a little of the later grey intelligent but crooked Hulk and I definitely find him not near as compelling as the childlike green guy who likes beans. I feel if something ain't broke, if it worked great for decades... but then I realize especially with people reading comics for decades, they do have to come up with something new. the only rule really is if it works you can do it, if it doesn't work... then don't. :^)
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