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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 1
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Of all the super heroes, who would you say is generally the hardest to write (or even draw), and how would you fix that?
Obviously Mr. Byrne has done these so often that it's (maybe) an exercise for him by now. But in context, who's the hardest to get to work? Wolverine? Wonder Woman? Superman? The Flash? And why are they tough? And what would you do to make it easier for them to be written?
And let's avoid real life, please. "There's no way Captain America/Cyclops could get those ricochets to work", "Flash is TOO fast - he'd solve every crime in two panels!", "Superman couldn't have that much power in a humanoid form!", "Wolverine would be in jail by now!" Accept their powers, personalities, etc. are extant. Who needs a little extra attention?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132133
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 2
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Superman. As Denny O’Neil said, it’s hard to write a character who can destroy an entire alien race by listening hard.
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 795
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 3
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That's why it always surprises me everytime Superman gets a power upgrade.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15729
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 4
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To draw, Jack of Hearts...
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3655
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 5
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John,
Yet you reduce Superman's powers even a micron and his fans go NUTZ!!!
Marc
Edited by Marc Baptiste on 09 April 2021 at 10:20am
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15729
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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I think of the really big, iconic characters, Wonder Woman is tough just because I don't think there is a clear paradigmatic version to try and emulate.
People tend to agree that the early years with William Moulton Masters saw some of the better stuff, but some key elements of that era are either absent in later stories (e.g. a theme of submission) or they are not consistent with what came later (e.g. her origin). The Perez era is also highly regarded, but it was a significant do-over.
As varying as the tone has been for Batman over the decades, his powers, origin, setting, base of operations and supporting cast have stayed consistent. Ditto with Spider-Man, Superman, etc.
Edited by Peter Martin on 09 April 2021 at 12:05pm
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Jabari Lamar Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017 Location: United States Posts: 351
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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As someone who can barely draw two decent-looking stick-figures, my question for JB and any other artists here would be how hard is Spider-Man to draw? I'd always imagined that drawing all those lines on his costume would get tiring? Even as a kid, when the black costume debuted, one of my first thoughts was wondering if that was just to make him easier to draw.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132133
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 8
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Spider-Man and the Thing are like Zen exercises. I just fall into a groove.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2280
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Even as a young kid, I learned how to draw Spider-Man pretty early on. I figured out how the lines go on Spider-Man's mask or arms with hardly any problem. Same thing with the stripes on Captain America's torso, the "v" on Superman's boots, Batman's oval bat and cartridge belt, etc. It seems to me that part of a successful costume design is if a 13-year-old kid can draw it from memory. When Jim Lee redesigned all the (New 52) DC heroes to have elaborate details and random (but not random) lines all over their costumes (that often conflicted with the muscle lines), those were not designed with kids being able to draw them in mind.
On the other hand, something like Jack of Hearts was a fun exception to the rule! He's a chance for the artist to revel in the detail! But if you're going to use him in a story, make sure you have an artist who enjoys that kind of thing.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2280
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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As for writing, I imagine the Flash must be the most difficult. As has been said, any fight could be over in a second. Kudos to Cary Bates (with artist Irv Novick) for making it work for many years and giving me one of my favorite childhood series--mostly by concentrating on Barry and Iris' relationship and the quirks of the Rogues Gallery.
It's curious. Barry being able to run at faster-than-light speed seems to be a holdover from the less serious/more exaggerated 1950's, and also by the need to be at least as fast as Superman. You'd think as time progressed and Stan Lee's Marvel of the 60's (and beyond) showed that more realistic limitations (a la Quicksilver) could conceivably be more interesting. Yet even as Superman was given more limits post-CRISIS, Flash just seemed to get faster and faster in the comics, TV, and movies. As though the writers are more interested in the metaphysical implications of the "Speed Force," thinking at super-speed, and time travel. I wonder if the Flash were created today how he'd be handled. Being able to run a mile (or 5 or maybe 10) a minute and super-speed reflexes in a fight sounds interesting enough to me--and easier to write!
Edited by Eric Jansen on 09 April 2021 at 7:56pm
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Rodrigo castellanos Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1434
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Posted: 09 April 2021 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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Of the flagship characters, I agree (as I already mentioned in another thread) that Superman is probably the hardest to make it work. JB, again kudos to you, sir.
Flash is also a compelling case. I like him a lot, but there's not really a "version" or run I'm fully satisfied with. I do prefer Wally to Barry though that might be a generational thing.
Green Lantern seems awfully hard as well (sensing a DC pattern here), and adapting him to film has proven a disaster. I hold the Englehart run dear to my heart though (as I've said many times over here, not a Johns fan)
The difficulty there seems to be in the balancing of the space opera stuff and the earthly. Similar to Thor in a way. But Thor did work out pretty great on film, so here's hoping someone can crack the GL code.
Wonder Woman I think has more solid ground. The Perez post-Crisis run is great for me, and I liked the Azzarello/Chiang more savage, amazonian warrior New 52 run a lot as well. The first movie was also almost great.
On the villain side, I find the Riddler to be the hardest in Batman's unparalleled rogues gallery. No version of him fully satisfies me, not even in the almost flawless animated series. He just doesn't "work". He's the main villain of the upcoming film apparently so we'll have another chance of evaluating that.
Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 09 April 2021 at 10:30pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132133
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Posted: 10 April 2021 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Flash is also a compelling case. I like him a lot, but there's not really a "version" or run I'm fully satisfied with. I do prefer Wally to Barry though that might be a generational thing.•• Or a writer thing.
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