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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12408
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
Millar later recalled "I've always thought the Hulk killed people all the time!" |
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30833
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 2
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Didn’t Millar have the Hulk eating people in THE ULTIMATES?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 3
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sigh
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5064
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 4
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Whenever I see these things about The Hulk killing people in his adventures or other ideas where the writer is thinking they are clever, I go back to this comment Greg Rucka gave in an interview:
'Denny was fond of saying "We don't ask why the Batmobile doesn't get caught in traffic." That is apparently the corollary to the Archie Goodwin saying about how the entire DC Universe is an inverted pyramid built on a secret identity that's a pair of glasses. If you want to tear it apart, you can do so with ease. You're not nearly as clever or smart as you think you are if you decide to go and nitpick it and tear it down, because there are loose threads everywhere. All that proves is that you're a killjoy. If you want to take it apart, it's very easy to do, but that's not the point. You either accept the world you're in or you don't. If you do, you're going to have a blast. If you don't, you better find something else to read, because you're going to be very unhappy.'
Edited by Greg McPhee on 11 April 2021 at 8:35am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 5
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I’m nothing close to being a Harry Potter fan. I know almost nothing about the character and his milieu. But what little l know suggests the people who work “within” that universe are not embarrassed by it. Or am I wrong? Are there subsets of Potterites who mock the character names, or who want to explain away the magic as superscience?
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 6
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Greg M. - That may be the best explanation of the comics idiom I have ever heard. Sure it's easy to destroy - but unless you enjoy self-destruction and mockery that you yourself create, what's the point? Who wants a hobby that they DON'T LIKE???
As for the Flash, post-Crisis was badly done (that describes 'most every DC character, save for those who weren't changed. That's maybe Jimmy Olsen, Green Lantern, and two members of the Secret Six. :P )
Define Flash's (and Quicksilver's) super powers and we'll see what the problem is. Can he do EVERYTHING fast (even at sonic speed) or can he run fast? People think at the speed of light, so that isn't, I think, one of FLash's powers - or he could learn everything.
Defining a real world value to a comic book power was also a problem. "How strong is Superman?" "How fast is the Flash?" "How smart is Batman?" Answers of "1000 tons", "Speed of sound at sea level", and "Smart as a Schweitzer" are useless. "Really strong", "Cleveland to Chicago in a matter of minutes", and "Clever enough to predict and outsmart every crook in Gotham City" are better answers.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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Sure it's easy to destroy - but unless you enjoy self-destruction and mockery that you yourself create, what's the point? Who wants a hobby that they DON'T LIKE???••• From my experience, far too many current fans No-Prize mentality, long a bane at Marvel, has swollen into an industry wide pathology.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4410
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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I suppose the ultimate deconstruction would be Watchmen still? It's a cul-de-sac in many ways, and superhero comics can be an "airtight garage" of it's own fantasy reality, but it's a fair point about how easy it is to attack things invented in a "simpler time" as light entertainment which Superman was, often created by very young writers and artists to boot. They had no conception of a shared universe until the barest glimmerings when the first crossover occurred (JSA? Sub-Mariner Human Torch battling then teaming up?) I usually make fun of this by saying stuff about Donald Duck comics, like where are Huey, Dewey and the other guy's parents, what eggs are they having for breakfast at Grandma duck's farm. For all I know Don Rosa or someone modern has addressed these burning issues... I think I did learn uncle Scrooge's siblings were revealed. There are only good stories that satisfy and those that don't or are even non-stories. Roy Thomas brought up a lot of old stuff leading to 'rascally' footnote fever in the comics, and while they were often fascinating stories they did feed the collector/fan side of things. Maybe the Julie Schwartz Superman family/mythology that built up and was featured in ways through 'secrets revealed' annuals and giants throughout the '60s did some of the same thing, though a lot of it was sillier stuff, definitely aimed at selling comics to younger readers.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7581
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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Didn’t Millar have the Hulk eating people in THE ULTIMATES? ——_————- No, Millar had something that he claimed was the Hulk in that comic. Along with a lot of other characters that shared names with established Marvel characters.
None were anything like the actual characters & so do not count. —————-
I’m nothing close to being a Harry Potter fan. I know almost nothing about the character and his milieu. But what little l know suggests the people who work “within” that universe are not embarrassed by it.
———————-
It seems to be that no one has issues with motivations or ‘the how’ with any other genre except super heroes. & comics are worse off because of that.
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Rodrigo castellanos Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1439
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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Then you're part of the problem.
I honestly didn't know and as a kid I thought Marvel was more lenient on these matters. I was a mega DC fan after all, so "no killing" is integral to me, especially with Superman and Batman.
BTW, not a Millar fan in any way. But I shared his ignorance on this too, gotta admit.
'Denny was fond of saying "We don't ask why the Batmobile doesn't get caught in traffic." That is apparently the corollary to the Archie Goodwin saying about how the entire DC Universe is an inverted pyramid built on a secret identity that's a pair of glasses.
I think both those quotes are brilliant, I learned about them here in this very forum even.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2280
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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Didn’t Millar have the Hulk eating people in THE ULTIMATES?_____________________
Yeah, Ultimate grey Hulk killed people and ate someone.
Green regular classic Hulk was like a child who wanted to be left alone. He was likable and sympathetic, and the buildings he destroyed ended up being deserted. (Did he know they were deserted? Don't worry about it.)
Mean, grey Ultimate Hulk is gone and green Hulk is still around (in one way or another, and one of the more enjoyable parts of the movies). In fact, ALL the Ultimate universe is gone--a line that one day looked like it was being groomed to take over from the original.
And the one movie that no one cares about at all (and even boycotted) was the Fant4stic movie that was clearly based on the Ultimate version. The "Ultimate" line-up became an Alternate universe, where the characters were increasingly unfamiliar and unlikable. Nobody wants a Hulk that kills/eats people.
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Rodrigo castellanos Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1439
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Posted: 11 April 2021 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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Nobody wants a Hulk that kills/eats people.
Of course not.
And I had also happily forgotten about the eating thing. Again, I hate Millar.
But I do find the Hulk to be different than most other characters. He's a huge, angry rampaging monster who's not fully in control of himself and is prone to mass destruction.
If it's established that he hasn't killed anyone ever, even by accident, that stretches my personal "suspension of disbelief" almost to the max, I gotta say.
But if that's the way it is that's the way it is, I'm not advocating to change that or anything. I just didn't know there was a "no killing" rule for the Hulk until I read that anecdote from Millar, that's all.
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