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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Colourful covers!

••

Targeting whom?

The Direct Sales market has pretty much eliminated the impulse buy. Most customers go to comic shops to make specific purchases--most of which were pre-ordered months in advance.

The days of seeing something on the rack and being inspired to check it out are virtually gone.

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Jeffrey Rice
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Create new diverse characters with actual backstory and personality. Stop replacing the Old Guard with Gen Z Woke Pandering versions. 

Marvel seems to be calming down on that wave, but DC has just announced an entire run of young, diverse, updates/alternates. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

None of your "solutions" will have any merit as long as they depend on a potential customer/fan making a decision to seek out a comic shop in order to make a purchase. As long as comics are no longer impulse buys, they cannot have a strong market base.
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John Wickett
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

John, that's a fair point.  If we're talking "great" in terms of sales, I don't think print comics can be saved.  Even if comics popped back up at convenience stores and supermarkets, the average cover price is now approaching $5.  For someone who's not already into comics the days of the impulse buy are gone.  Sadly, so are the days of kids buying comics.

I don't think comics will ever go away completely, but I think they will evolve into a mostly electronic medium that is aimed at a niche audience, and kept alive primarily as a source of creative material for movies, television, video games, etc.  

Having said that, even if that is all we end up with, I think the point of the conversation is how we can make comics (in whatever form we receive them) creatively great again.

Probably the best thing would be new creative voices.  Marvel produced some of its best stuff in the bronze age.  Miller on Daredevil,   Byrne on X-Men, etc.  These stories were innovative.  That's what created the grandeur, and that's what seems to be missing, though to be fair, its not entirely absent.  Coates has surely brought a sense of grandeur to Black Panther, and there are a few other examples.  

I credit DC for swinging at the fences with this latest relaunch.  We're seeing names on books that we've never seen before.  Maybe it will work, and maybe not.  But at least they are going for it.   



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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

John W: "...when was the last time Marvel was great in your opinion?"

That's a good question, my friend. There are a number of elements that I think were indicators that the end of Marvel's grandeur was at hand...

*  The introduction of characters such as Ms. Marvel, Nova, She-Hulk, and Spider-Woman. That seemed to me to be the start of "Let's cash in on our previous properties with an easy change, rather than something new and exciting!" All three of those characters I cited below were derivative of existing properties. Nova, especially, seemed to me to be an effort to once again catch the Spider-Man lightning in a bottle, but ten years later.

The characters and stories could be very good... but the same could have happened with totally original characters.

*  The first company wide crossover. Suddenly, readers had to buy EVERY BOOK to get the full story. To hell with that. I feel that, at the time, nobody was buying every book; and it was far easier to drop four books than pick up eight new ones. This idea works a grand total of ONCE. Everything after that is designed to fail.

*  Comics supporting toys. DC had Super Powers, which was fair at best (Kirby IS king...) But Secret Wars? Junk from top to bottom. Characters out of character, villains going out of their way to be ineffective - and look, it's only my opinion, but everybody CAN'T be Captain America. The X-Men, Avengers, etc. are suddenly kidnapped and trapped far out in space. They don't know the status of their loved ones, don't know if they'll ever get home - and here's Doc Ock and the Lizard and Doom are now trying to kill them. The very best of the heroes would come to the villains and explain that they're all in the same boat, and damn the Beyonder - they ALL  have to work on getting home.

But how the Hulk didn't just tear the arms off Doc Ock and the armor off Doom mystifies me. Or how Wolverine didn't take matters into his own hands, and be the running man in one night to slit 100 throats.

*  The advent of Comic Shop ONLY distribution. Direct sales were fine; it allowed better access to comics. But when that turned into "You can't get comics at your department store/drugstore/bookstore, but only at Costly Comics Cavalcade... I think that hurt matters a lot.

I reckon that's probably about the extent of when I thought comics were last really great. Although I'll probably think of  more... that mind of mine never sleeps.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The Direct Sales market has pretty much eliminated the impulse buy. Most customers go to comic shops to make specific purchases--most of which were pre-ordered months in advance.

-------

This is no longer true. Graphic novel/trade paperback sales in the retail book channel have surpassed monthly comics in the specialty shops. It's a Netflix binge world, and readers want to wait for the trade.


Kids have no problems seeking out manga like ONE PIECE or MY HERO ACADEMIA. The issue isn't accessibility. And if you follow any sort of manga/anime, you know the issue for kids isn't long-form storytelling. Something like NARUTO just goes on and on and on.

We live in a world where kids are obsessed with watching people play Minecraft on Twitch streams and doing dances on TikTok, and the old folks are thinking that if only we made Western and Romance comics fun and cheap again, people will come back. That's not going to happen. I mean, reading some of the complaints on this thread, people are complaining about things that happened 10-20 years ago. The Marvel Universe was only 25 years old when I started collecting books.

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John Wickett
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Good points.  That puts Marvel's "fall" sometime in the early to mid 80s.  For me it would be just a little bit later than that, but even though the Marvel Universe has lost something since that time, Marvel has published a lot of great comics in the last 30 years.  
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John Wickett
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Michael, you're right about the graphic novels and TPBs in book stores, but do you really think $20-$25 is an impulse buy?  I think the people who are buying these also plan their purchases in advance.  This is just a shift in the way comics are consumed.

The new readers we are adding are 20 somethings; not kids.  And the number of readers is still many times smaller than it was in the 70s or 80s.  So we're still a relatively small niche audience.  But that doesn't mean comics can't be great.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

American comics have often been called an art form masquerading as a business. (Some said a business masquerading as an art form.) In the Nineties, with the shift of power to the DSM and the coming of the speculators, comics became a business masquerading as a business.

I can’t think of any other corporate venture in which suicidal short sightedness became policy.

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Steven Brake
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

@JB: Fair point! I was just thinking of the question raised by Eric in his OP about what Marvel or DC could do with their respective products.

I wonder if anything can break the DSM market? Or is it just too powerful?
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Daniel Burke
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don't think its powerful at all... its just what's left. 

It would be very difficult for the comic book industry to demand prime placement in retail locations. Book stores and news stands don't exist like they used to.

WalMart proved they don't have a huge interest in cultivating a comic book presence in their store that needs weekly updates and rotations. 

The only real replacement to the DSM would be digital, I guess. 

Amazon got into that game by buying Comixology. So the biggest retailer in the world seems to think there is a market.

The current challenge being that publishers charge the same price for a digital book that they charge for a printed book, sent through middlemen to a retailer. 

Digital can do replace the DSM, but not at print prices. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 February 2021 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Many years ago, at a con, I was confronted by a retailer who demanded that Marvel should produce more “guaranteed hits”.

Not sure how he thought anybody could do that, but I told him that as a retailer it was HIS job to SELL PRODUCT. Not treat his shop like a clubhouse, sitting back and waiting for the money to roll in. His philosophy needed to be that of a used car salesman. EVERY item in the shop was something SOMEBODY would want.

I did not win a new friend that day!

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