| Author |
|
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5466
|
| Posted: 05 February 2021 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
"Many years ago, at a con, I was confronted by a retailer who demanded that Marvel should produce more “guaranteed hits”.Not sure how he thought anybody could do that, but I told him that as a retailer it was HIS job to SELL PRODUCT."
...
After spending years selling services and products it was a simple vision:
If you're going to sell something in your store, you need to offer it to the consumer in a compelling way. That's the retailer's half of the bargain.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
|
| Posted: 05 February 2021 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
Well, I'm no expert on current comics ... but ...
- "Re-unique" the characters ; get rid of the Red Hulks, Yellow Hulks, Spider-Gwens, Spider-Verse, 1,000,000 BC Avengers - more and more of the same idea just stops your core characters being special ;
- Stop trying to be the cinema ; comics are not the movies
- Bin the grim & gritty for good - and get us back to something more optimistic ;
- Give us fabulous exploits and heroism, truly titanic battles and mayhem - but as fantasy grounded in realism, not some real world warzone.
- Marvel heroes have feet of clay, but not ( to paraphrase JB - I think ? ) all the way up to their necks. And stop twisting stuff so that 'authority' figures like Xavier or Reed or whoever else has to be some untrustworthy piece of work
- Stop re-heating every previous idea and replaying it in some other hero's book
- For god's sake, kill the ***ing Phoenix off - else everyone on Earth will have had a turn before long
- Less 'Events' and more stories
- And bring back the fun there used to be.
All this applies to DC similarly ; there's probably a heap more I'm not even thinking of as yet, but there's my first shot.
_________________________________________
Everything that Phil said. I would also ad the following things to what Phil said.
1. Stop killing off,maiming,turning evil,tossing in limbo,and depowering minority characters/
2. Stop changing/retconing the sexuality of straight characters. Create either brand new original LGBTQ+ characters.
3. Stop reinventing/revamping white characters as minority POC characters via racebending. Brand new POC legacy characters are fine, but I would prefer brand new original minority POC characters.
4. Stop allowing creators to tell stories that should have never been told (like Wolverine's origin).
5. Stop over powering characters.
6. Stop creating multiple generic archetype knockoffs of each others characters. It's gotten out of hand, especially at Marvel where they have multiple Superman knockoffs running around the MU.
7. Stop all of this naval gazing storytelling aimed at older readers (teens and adults) and return to making all ages layered stories that don't talk down to the readers.
8. Stop over exposing popular characters by giving them multiple titles and putting them on multiple teams.
9. Stop having most heroes approve of/condone and adapt the violent "kill the bad guys" methods and attitudes of characters like the Punisher and Wolverine.
10. Stop with the boring talking heads superhero comics and return to giving us more action packed superhero comics.
11. Stop with the speculator and mainstream news media driven short term sales boosting stunts.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Vishwas Aragam
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Posts: 120
|
| Posted: 05 February 2021 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
We need to be 10 years old again.
I’ve changed my thinking on this topic from “comics aren’t good these
days” to “comics aren’t for me anymore”.
My first X-Men comic had no action in it. But reading a comic with the
characters from the cartoon I liked and talking about it with my friends
at school was part of what made comics great for me. That’s not going
to happen again. I don’t think there’s anything that wil make Marvel as
mighty for me now as it was then.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3520
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 4:58am | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
"Many years ago, at a con, I was confronted by a
retailer who demanded that Marvel should produce more
“guaranteed hits”.
Not sure how he thought anybody could do that, but I
told him that as a retailer it was HIS job to SELL
PRODUCT. Not treat his shop like a clubhouse, sitting
back and waiting for the money to roll in. His
philosophy needed to be that of a used car salesman.
EVERY item in the shop was something SOMEBODY would
want.
I did not win a new friend that day"
**
You know, thinking back on it, my late teen/young
adult LCS experience was a fortunate one. My LCS
owner was a sport card guy that just sort of fell
selling comics at the request of a few customers, and
comics eventually eclipsed the cards. He carried none
of that baggage into operating his shop - he treated
it strictly as a business since he wasn't a "comics
guy".
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132280
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
"Many years ago, at a con, I was confronted by a retailer who demanded that Marvel should produce more “guaranteed hits”.Not sure how he thought anybody could do that, but I told him that as a retailer it was HIS job to SELL PRODUCT."... After spending years selling services and products it was a simple vision:If you're going to sell something in your store, you need to offer it to the consumer in a compelling way. That's the retailer's half of the bargain. •• A problem lies with those retailers who do not function AS retailers. Who still harbor the dealer mentality, as if they were selling comics from longboxes in the back of a van. This is not unique to comics. Most businesses have a share of people who are horrified at the thought of Actually Doing Their Jobs.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
How about hiring editorial staff who are professionals that are willing to tell "superstar" creators that they have bad ideas once in a while?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
QUOTE:
| Michael, you're right about the graphic novels and TPBs in book stores, but do you really think $20-$25 is an impulse buy? I think the people who are buying these also plan their purchases in advance. This is just a shift in the way comics are consumed. |
|
|
Never suggested it was an impulse buy. The time for comics as an impulse buy (or any periodical for that matter) has passed. People who can afford to impulse buy disposable entertainment tend to have smartphones or other handheld devices for their disposable entertainment.
QUOTE:
| The new readers we are adding are 20 somethings; not kids. And the number of readers is still many times smaller than it was in the 70s or 80s. So we're still a relatively small niche audience. But that doesn't mean comics can't be great. |
|
|
I think we need to stop conflating comics as a medium and comics as an industry. As a medium, I don't think comics have ever been accessible or mainstream as they are today.
Kids are reading comics. It's just not Marvel and DC stuff. Walk into a Target or a Walmart and see how much space is devoted to the Scholastic stuff. Every time a new DOG MAN book comes out, it gets its own endocarp.
Teens are reading comics. They're just from Japan. They're even reading DC superhero stuff, but it's those YA graphic novels that are more coming-of-age and romance books than superhero.
20-somethings are reading comics. Sadly, I think it's a GAME OF THRONES situation where the number of readers pirating books off the internet eclipses the number of people buying books. But for those who do buy, more are buying trades from the retail book channel.
As an industry, if we are talking about the business of selling monthly disposable entertainment to kids, I think that's dead and never coming back. Kids consume media differently today. Technology has caught up, and the grandeur that made superhero comics uniquely appealing to older generations can now be done in TV, movies, and video games.
What the future of the industry is, I don't know. But people are talking about newsstand vs DSM, when both are becoming largely irrelevant. People are talking catering to aged fanboys vs catering what appealed to aged fanboys when they were younger, ignoring the fact that what appeals to Gen Z in terms of the comics medium is completely different.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30897
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
My oldest has just gotten into Manga pretty big over the last 6-12
months. She’s huge into anime as well. She’s 17
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5466
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
"The time for comics as an impulse buy (or any periodical for that matter) has passed. People who can afford to impulse buy disposable entertainment tend to have smartphones or other handheld devices for their disposable entertainment."
...
I think you nailed it Michael. Once smart phones became commonplace in the hands of kids as young as five years old, the death knell rang for that initial impulse comic. No longer will a parent need to grab something off the rack to occupy their children at the drug store, like happened to so many of us that started our obsession.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
Not all LCS' are created equal. It depends on how much a store wants to grow it's customer base. Mine has a great community outreach that stays loyal to it's current customers but is friendly to the curious visitor and especially kids. I just watched a dad today with his son looking for Iron Man but he wanted age appropriate stories (kid may have been 7 or so) and they hooked him up with some inexpensive issues from the 80's. They didn't try to sell the dad something he wasn't looking for. I will also say that the store lets some customers pull issues out of the bag and board to preview. If the customer doesn't, the owner will do it to show them what they may be getting ready to buy. A lot of customers bring their kids (me being one of them) and that helps. My daughter isn't into comics but still has me pick up the occasional book that interests her. Boom! Has a book right now called The Last Witch that the guys told me she might like. She had me add it to my pull list. I know I sing their praises a lot but they're going strong after 35 years as a mom and pop store. They must be doing something right.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 807
|
| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
"I think you nailed it Michael. Once smart phones became commonplace in the hands of kids as young as five years old, the death knell rang for that initial impulse comic. No longer will a parent need to grab something off the rack to occupy their children at the drug store, like happened to so many of us that started our obsession."
Exactly. In the 80s comics that were good sellers were selling hundreds of thousands of copies per month. I just looked at an article that said that in 1983 or 1984 Capital City Distribution was selling an average of 206 copies of Secret Wars per store. Most stores now probably only get that many new comics per week with all titles combined. And that doesn't take into account the thousands of copies that used to be sold at convenience stores, supermarkets, drug stores, etc.
So if we're measuring greatness in terms of sales, its over. I think what Eric was originally getting at was how to make the content great again.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steven Brake
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 January 2016
Posts: 562
|
| Posted: 07 February 2021 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
I'm confused why the incredible financial success of the MCU hasn't trickled down to the comics.
I wonder how many kids or younger viewers who've seen an MCU film have tried to buy a comic book, but couldn't? Or bought one, but weren't impressed by it?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
