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John Byrne
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Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 26 November 2020 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Money is a huge factor here, IMO, because DC owns derivative characters without there being a 'creator' for the derivative characters, where if someone created a 'new' character for them, then they would have to deal with all that. So derivative versions of established characters are easier to own, and this new WW, I believe, is going to become the new Wonder Girl - kind of like how we got a new black Aqualad - an all-new, all-different derivative character.

Yet Roger Stern gets royalties for Hobgoblin, aka Green Goblin 2.0.

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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 26 November 2020 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Count me among those who dont care for making Cyborg a member of
the Justice League. Black Lightning (or Amazing Man) would have
been my choice.
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John Wickett
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Posted: 26 November 2020 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"Yet Roger Stern gets royalties for Hobgoblin, aka Green Goblin 2.0."

John, how does that typically work with regard to comics?  

I've heard many times that Black Vulcan was created as a substitute for Black Lightning, in order to avoid paying Tony Isabella royalties on the Superfriends.  So it makes sense (although it sucks) that DC would avoid using a character in TV or movies in order to avoid royalty payments to the creator.  But I didn't think creators got royalties for appearances in comic books.  It seems like we'd have a lot fewer team ups and guest appearances if that were the case.
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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 27 November 2020 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I don't know exactly how it works, but Gerry Conway
was writing recently (last year or so) about how even
though he created Killer Frost, he didn't create the
new Killer Frost and wasn't getting royalties, but
since she is a derivative of the original, then nobody
did, and noby was getting royalties, e.g. you can't
get credit for creating the new Wonder Woman or the
new Wonder Girl when both already exist. Look for it.
It's kinda cool.

And H-B did create their own Black Vulcan to avoid
paying for the use of Black Lightning. Sad.

So I can only assume the Hobgoblin is different enough
from the Green Goblin - different costumed name and
different secret identity - to be a unique character.
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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 27 November 2020 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

As for Cyborg, I blame Geoff Johns (and probably The
Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians cartoon) but he
is such an important part of the Titans, both in the
comics and the cartoons, that it just seems wrong to
me to make him an original member of the Justice
League, especially with Black Lightning, and more
recently, John Stewart playing such an important roll
in the Justice League cartoons and comics.

Hal Jordan is probably my all-time favorite super
hero, but John Stewart is so good and makes so much
sense that I think he should be/should have been a
"new" founding member in the New 52 and the movie. In
fact, since the success of the cartoon, he should help
compose the Big Four at DC, helping to firmly
legitimize African-American super heroes in comics,
movies, and pop culture. Black Lightning should be on
the team too, and they should have a legitimate best
friendship like the others do and have had. He,
Jefferson, and Vixen could be the Superman, Batman,
and Wonder Woman of the Black community, and they
deserve equal time on the biggest team.

I would let John Stewart headline a New Green Lantern
series, like he used to, and use Green Lantern Corps
to focus on Kyle with Hal as his older mentor. As
long as the books sell or promote the property with
enough purpose to justify publication.

I love the Justice League and all the originals, but
as long as the Big Three are in the book, it will
always be the Justice League. The rest of the roster
could be more representative of the rest of the public
- without being forced or any more derivative.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 November 2020 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Just be glad Wolverine isnt a founding member of the JLA.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 27 November 2020 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Wait, didn't I see in the 2010s that Wolverine IS now involved in the founding of the JLA? >ducking quickly<.

Well, it seems he was in every other damned comic. Wouldn't be surprised if Wong or Jarvis replaced him in their respective roles. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to find out he was dating Night Nurse...
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 28 November 2020 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This cartoon came to mind...

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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2020 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The problem with the "write good stories" approach is that first we have to penetrate the firewall of the Shops. We have to get the material into the hands of the readers, who, before they can even make a purchase, have to locate a comic shop and go there. No impulse buying, as used to be a driving force in the industry.

Once in the shop, the potential reader has to hope the guy behind the counter also likes whatever product might be under consideration. Isn't "boycotting" an artist or writer, or burying the book in the back of the store.

Good stories? Great idea. But first the readers have to be able to, you know, READ them.

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