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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 1
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Took a few days off and had a nice treat of 4 pages straight -- and what an enjoyable read. Feels right to have Nightcrawler back in the mix.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16430
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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Thinking on the matter of Phoenix and the X-Men... It's pretty complicated, really. I mean, yes, the X-Men now know that the entity they thought was Jean all those years was really this evil force, but during the time that Jean's memories and personality were in charge of the Phoenix she was their friend.
In fact, since Jean's personality was dominant until Mastermind started mucking about, most of the time that Phoenix spent with the team she was actually friendly and caring towards them. I can imagine how conflicted that might make them. They would have these pleasant, and even cherished memories of time spent with this creature they thought was their friend. Since it was Jean's personality in control, it can even be assumed that any feelings Phoenix expressed towards her teammates was genuine, even.
I'd imagine it be hard to let go of that sort of thing, and to reconcile one's feelings about it. This would be especially true of Scott.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 15 October 2020 at 3:27pm
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6103
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 3
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There's a question inherent to this Jean/Phoenix overlap.
Phoenix WAS Jean. Jean made it so. Phoenix became a psycho-emotional clone of Jean, behaving in every way as if Jean Grey had become Phoenix -- not because it was pretending or faking it, but because it was SO.
However, the original Jean was no part of Jean/Phoenix. Like a page removed from the scanner, Jean was physically taken out of the picture and the scan was left in her place.
All the X-Men's love for Jean/Phoenix was right and just. It was real and it was returned -- it just wasn't exactly what they thought it was.
This is not an unprecedented notion in fiction, but the period in question -- the adventures of Jean/Phoenix -- are held in such high regard that fans are left in a state very much like the characters are supposed to be. Was that time with Jean/Phoenix "real"? Was it not? What exactly is the difference?
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 888
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt Hawkes wrote:
And, yes, that means that when Jean was piloting the shuttle that went into Jamaica Bay, that was three years ago from now! It's not rocket science!
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You are technically correct... but I'm pretty sure piloting a shuttle is very, very close to rocket science. (even 3 years ago)
Oh? You were talking about something else...what did I miss?
Edited by Steven Queen on 15 October 2020 at 5:04pm
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 5
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And even Darkseid was probably fooled by which Phoenix was... which...? Wait, what?
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John Northey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 199
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| Posted: 15 October 2020 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 6
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Time frames in comics are tricky - much easier before fans were more my age instead of being 12 year olds. Some strips go along with 'real time' like "For Better or For Worse" where characters aged and got married, had children, and eventually died. Or Gasoline Ally. Not many like that though as I'm sure it is a challenge to get a full story in before characters age out of it. Marvel in the early 60's did a modified version - iirc it worked around a 2-1 or 3-1 ratio : ie: for every 2-3 years in real life 1 year passed there. Thus Peter graduated high school, the X-Men graduated their high school, Reed & Sue got married and had Franklin. But then in the late 60's that ended as TV rights and merchandising became a big deal - can't have a TV show about a teenage superhero then when you go to the comics he is an adult. Thus aging stopped and the 'everything is from the past 7-10 years' thing started. The problem is if you try to keep it all active (IE: claim it all happened) then you get so much weight that the 7-10 year window gets too crowded and it collapses and we get a Crisis/New52/whatever. Not the right forum for going in depth about pluses/minuses. Just how I understand the age thing and why this story happens in todays world vs being a period piece for 1981 (although I like that it isn't forced into the time frame with non-stop references to modern fads). The taser is a modern element that could be changed to a gun in your mind if you want it to be 1981, or into whatever they dream up of next for law enforcement if you want it to be in the near future. Hmm... a bit too much probably.
Mandatory Byrne fanboy stuff - loving the art on the latest pages - the detail looks more in-depth than the earlier issues. Love seeing artists improve even when I already think of them as near top of the game. Anyone who says JB is getting too old hasn't looked at this stuff. Just hope his eyes/hands hold out for a lot more years - so sad that George Perez's career is over now.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 7
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Nightcrawler? Yay! Rubble? Yay!
And a tiny speculation because I can't help it. I think that's Spider-Man talking to Kurt. It just seems to be his tone and phrasing, and above Kurt in addition. Sure it might not be - but I'll swear I saw red and blue and webs in that last panel. GREAT cliffhanger!
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Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4524
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 8
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Kurt has never looked better these last few pages, I can’t help but think
he would benefit from a new costume.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132278
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 9
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Looking for reactions to ELSEWHEN other than here, I found a very strange discussion. Some very positive comments, but so many were of the "too many notes" variety, as if the writers had master keys they just HAD to use. "Old stuff was better", of course. "Better if Terry inked it." "Better if Claremont wrote it." One even said I had "already done this in HIDDEN YEARS", which misses the point of BOTH series.Strangest of all tho, was that given Bendis had tried so hard to get me to work with him, it was "ironic" that I was doing this just as he went to DC. Bendis tried to get me to work with him? Was I in a coma?
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1928
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 10
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I love these "quieter" moments. Kurt is pure Kurt and he springs into action, reminding us how intense and recent that Sentinel plot was. But man oh man, I can't stop looking at that gorgeous chair in the rubble. I want one.
I love how you handle Kurt's kindness and concern for others. I'm looking forward to him meeting Logan again.
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5466
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 11
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Oh man, I'm feeling for Kurt right now.
Also loving these Nightcrawler panels! Ever since I read that Cockrum description on how Nightcrawler's tail should be drawn (or where it may look like it's coming from if not) my eye goes there. Showing the indication from his gown on these latest panels subconsciously puts my mind at ease.
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Jason Ladwig
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 198
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| Posted: 16 October 2020 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 12
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Love your eye/bridge of nose close ups as in todays page and Wolverine fighting Jahf. So expressive and brings a great sense of stress/suspense.
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