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Topic: Unheralded/Under-rated Greats Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Wickett
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 1:06am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Garcia Lopez gets a great deal of respect.  I included him because every year fan sites like Newsarama, Bleeding Cool, etc., do their articles ranking the greatest artists of all time, and he's always listed lower than he should be.  

I think a lot of artists are under rated because their work is not as relevant as it is good.  

Here's what I mean by that: Multiple people have mentioned Ron Frenz.  He's a wonderful artist who's work has an "old school" feel to it.  Its old school because everthing Frenz has done was done first by someone else; especially Kirby.  

Kirby will always be ranked at the top (and deservedly so) because he was the template.  His work is much more relevant, historic, and influential than Frenz's.  But none of that detracts from the quality of Frenz's art.  

Even if Frenz lacks the relevance to be ranked as a "great," he deserves to be acknowledged for the quality of his artwork.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I cant decide if youre downing Frenz or not.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

If you were asked to name the greatest runs of all-time on Amazing Spider-Man, I think Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita would be at the top for most people and next on the list would likely either be Stern/Romita Jr or DeFalco/Frenz. Which is why I would hesitate to call Frenz underrated.

Edited by Peter Martin on 15 September 2020 at 11:26am
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John Wickett
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Brian,

No, not downing Frenz at all. I love his stuff. Plus I owe him- my wife's first comics were several issues of Spidergirl.

My point was that there are some names who will always appear in any discussion of the all-time greats- Kirby, Eisner, Neal Adams, etc.  

Frenz, like everyone else, followed in the footsteps of these innovators. To me, Frenz's work looks like a cross between Jack Kirby and Sal Buscema.

Kirby will always be regarded more highly because he was first, and because he created so much of the Marvel Universe.  
 
However, recognizing Kirby's greatness doesn't diminish the quality of Frenz.  If you're a Frenz fan, and comparing the two simply as illustrators, you might feel Frenz is just as good as Kirby; maybe even better.  

In this case Frenz may not always get the recognition he deserves because we're comparing him to Kirby instead of just appreciating the greatness of his art for its own sake.  And that makes him under-rated.  
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 John Wickett wrote:
In this case Frenz may not always get the recognition he deserves because we're comparing him to Kirby instead of just appreciating the greatness of his art for its own sake. 
I think Frenz brings that one himself because of his swiping and changing of his style.  When he's on Spider-Man he does Ditko and/or Sal Buscema.  When he's on Thor he does Kirby.  He's a solid craftsman, but he's kind of the 80s/90s answer to Rich Buckler.  From what I've seen, he never really seems to have developed a distinctive style of his own.


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 15 September 2020 at 3:05pm
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Add my name to the list of those who appreciate Ron Frenz's artwork. I've enjoyed his work on several titles.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

He's a solid craftsman, but he's kind of the 80s/90s answer to Rich
Buckler

******

I just died a little.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I read those DeFalco/Frenz issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and at no point did I think "Ditko." And I saw more John Buscema than Sal Buscema. Same with the SUPERMAN annual that JB wrote about Titano.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

OK. When drawing Peter wearing the red/black/blue Spider-Man costume, Frenz drew in a Ditko-ish style. This is a bad thing? Nobody else looked Ditko-ish.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I didn't mean it as an insult.  I like a lot of Buckler's work, particularly his FF run.  But I have no illusions that he didn't swipe a lot and change his style a lot by very directly imitating others.  From what I've seen of Frenz's work, it's a similar situation.  
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"From what I've seen, he never really seems to have developed a distinctive style of his own."


And yet his style is instantly recognizable, whether he's drawing Spidey, FF, Thor or even Superman. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Show me examples of Frenz swiping.
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