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Sergio Saavedra
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Joined: 13 August 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 452
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 1
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I don't know, all these developments seem strange to me. Removing statues of Colombus because he wasn't a saint per today's standards is not very dissmilar to Taliban destroying Buddha statues or Daesh jihadists destroying Assirian statues because they didn't fit with their current values. I don't think Columbus is an important figure in history because he was suppossed to be a saint. He is important because of the events his discovery triggered that completely changed the world. That's all. If people is strongly against slavery, they'd do better focusing their energy against sex trafficking or migrant smuggling, rather than against statues, IMHO.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 2
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I assume they're going to replace him with Leiv Eriksson ;-)
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 3
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America wasn't "discovered" by any European.... And it was the Bahamas that Cristoforo Colombo actually ran into. As Petter noted above, Lief Eriksson and his crew should be given the credit for the first non-native setting foot upon North American soil on what is now considered Prince Edward Island.
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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yeah, but no statue for Lief either. The first group of natives he stumbled upon he slaughtered in their sleep.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3823
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 5
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Not sure about the accuracy of that, Doug, but they WERE vikings and prone to extreme violence. The saga of Eirik Raude (Leiv's father) tells of conflict with the natives, which is why they eventually left instead of settling. The natives were described in very unflattering terms.
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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5458
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 6
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You're right Petter, I should have prefaced that statement with "allegedly".
That was a story I remember hearing as a youngster.
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Christopher Frost
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Joined: 24 October 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 484
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 7
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"And no, I don't think we rename Washington. Though a slave owner, as a Founding Father he helped create the system that allowed us to eventually end slavery and do a lot more justice to groups the Founding Fathers left out."
Nope, unacceptable. If you are truly against racism, slavery, etc. and the celebration of it then Washington has to go too. If you start making exceptions to the rule, then the whole thing becomes arbitrary and hypocritical. Either it's fine that we have things named after people who were less than perfect or they've all gotta go like a fire sale. You can't have it both ways.
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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So do we also trash the Declaration of Independence? It was mainly penned by Thomas Jefferson.
What about the Jefferson Monument? Do we destroy all remaining $2 bills, too?
How far do we go here?
Edited by Kevin Brown on 26 July 2020 at 8:45pm
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Christopher Frost
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Joined: 24 October 2016
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 9
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That was my point. How far is too far? Do we remove Washington from the currency? Do we rename every school named after someone questionable? Do we rename cities because the person they were named after owned a slave or didn't accomplish everything they were credited with? The whole thing is out of control.
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 July 2020 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 10
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How far is too far?_____________
I don't have the answer but if you think
things are out of control now just because statues are coming own and they're
renaming some teams/places(and those are some big changes)
imagine how it felt during slavery or when women/poc couldn't vote or were
considered 3/5 of a white person
Now that was too far.
Edited by Paul Kimball on 26 July 2020 at 10:06pm
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
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| Posted: 27 July 2020 at 1:45am | IP Logged | 11
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Indeed Paul. I have no problem with statues being pulled down and things being renamed. It's like this hasn't happened throughout history already.
I wasn't at all aware of Colston (the slave owner) whose statue was recently pulled down in Bristol. There are buildings all over the city with his name on - I think I went to a gig at one once. Hearing the viewpoints of black people since then about how it felt for them to walk around and see the celebration of the man that brought their ancestors over in chains everywhere they looked, opened my eyes.
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Andy Mokler
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Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 27 July 2020 at 2:19am | IP Logged | 12
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How far is too far?_____________
I don't have the answer but if you think
things are out of control now just because statues are coming own and they're
renaming some teams/places(and those are some big changes)
imagine how it felt during slavery or when women/poc couldn't vote or were
considered 3/5 of a white person
Now that was too far.
Shouldn't the point be that we rectified all of that? Slavery wasn't a US institution. We didn't invent it. We ENDED it.
You're recounting of events is also taking out all nuance. The 3/5 compromise was just that. It was not that our forefathers literally thought blacks were only 60% of a white person. They were making a compromise to keep our nation from tearing itself apart. It was a political concession designed to further progress.
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