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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 11 July 2020 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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Here is one page. I'm sure you can find more.
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1734
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 5:48am | IP Logged | 2
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Thanks guys - I found them. Interesting to see the comparison. I've always loved Cockrum inking himself the best, with Dan Green being my second favorite inker for him.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4523
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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I was happy with the art quality on Cockrum's return to the X-Men, it was the stories (and his input on them possibly too) that as often as not didn't work for me.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4825
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 4
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I had no problem with the art when Cockrum returned - Rubinstein and McLeod were excellent inkers and Wiacek was serviceable. My issues also were with the stories - they had wandered too far from the original concept and were spending most of their time in outer space.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6103
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 1:59am | IP Logged | 5
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Robert: they had wandered too far from the original concept and were
spending most of their time in outer space.
**
It's hard to know exactly where these things come from, but when Dave
Cockrum began his original run on the New X-Men, they spent half their
time in outer space.
His return was a chance to do what he loved doing -- and I sure loved the
comics. I was one of those guys who wished JB hadn't had to leave, but
with JB on FF and Cockrum on X-Men, there was a major part of my life
squared away in good order!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 6
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I wonder how Nightcrawler sweats, being "furry"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 7
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On the matter of "outer space", I'll have to offer a mea culpa too, as far as ELSEWHEN. Clearing up dangling plotlines has left me dealing a lot with the Shi-ar, and it ain't over.I was reviewing the series the other day, and found myself thinking "How about a few mutant menaces, boyo?"
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12438
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 8
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Dave Cockrum, Chris Claremont -- major talents, no doubt,
and beloved by generations of readers.
But, for me, the X-Men in outer space is wrong. Nothing
at all to be done in that regard about ELSEWHEN. The set-
up is what it was! I just only want (literally and
metaphorically) grounded stories a la Lee-Kirby. Isn't
the whole point about the X-Men that they are mutant
variants of humans and live to serve and protect the non-
mutant humans who fear or even hate them? If the X-Men go
to outer space, well, why not just live there? Blow off
the earth completely. There's a universe of "others" out
there who wouldn't blink an eye at you!
It's like my buddy used to say about us Jews -- let's
just go to the Moon already...!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 9
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Certain characters should be "street level", unconcerned with vast, cosmic events. Daredevil. Spider-Man. And, yes, the X-Men.Of course, I have noted several times that when Chris' long run on UNCANNY is cited, it's not entirely correct. Altho the book had the same title all the time he was writing it, Chris took the characters far, far away from where they started--and arguably belonged. This effect can be seen even while I was on the book. Chris used the annuals to have the X-Men go places I would not have wanted to take them. Parallel dimensions, or off fighting supernatural foes.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 10
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Mr. Byrne - And Mr. Claremont's stories devolved, it seemed, from being the heroes who defended a humanity that feared them into stories where their whole purpose was to defend themselves against swarms of groups who were out to get them. Never a hero vs villain story that I recall. Self-defense can make interesting stories, I suppose, but I wouldn't have minded seeing the New X-Men battle the Living Pharaoh (etc.) trying to terrorize the Egyptian embassy and MOMA in New York.
Even Shooter fell for this writing Secret Wars. Trapped on a planet God only knows how far from Earth - facing a legion of really powerful villains - and the heroes want to ostracize the X-Men?!?!?
As for outer space adventures - maybe once. After X-Men #100, the merry mutants never needed to go into space again. It reminds me a bit of Spider-Man's team up with Warlock on Earth's moon. (Marvel Team-Up #55.) It was just so awkward. You put Thor in space. You put Iron Man in Space. You put Captain Marvel or the Silver Surfer or the Fantastic Four* in space. But leave Captain America and Daredevil and Ghost Rider on Earth.
*Of course, you could put the Fantastic Four ANYWHERE and still get a good story out of it. They appeared in more venues than Michael Caine in the 70s.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 11
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Roger Stern even went so far as to retcon one of the earliest Spider-Man stories so the Terrible Tinkerer was NOT in fact, an alien!(Aliens were a lot like radiation in the early MU. A quick and easy access to a story that was bound to appeal to the kids reading the comics!)
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 12
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Characters out of their element can be interesting off-beat tales. They should not become the norm.
I always thought if I was writing the X-Men I would want to turn them into super-heroes, like they used to be.
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