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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 1
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David, care to define what you mean by "white fear"? The common definition of the term doesn't really match what Christopher is saying so I am curious how you came to that conclusion from his post.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3004
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
| his rise was more due to the backlash against political correctness. |
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| That attitude of "don't tell me what I can or cannot say" is deeply ingrained in the American psyche and when someone like Trump comes along, people will flock to his side |
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| As the culture continues to make strides for minorities, equal rights for all, and so forth, there is going to be some pushback against it |
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All of these are white fear.
QUOTE:
| this nonsense of "cancel culture" |
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This is white fear propaganda.
Edited by David Miller on 12 July 2020 at 9:43pm
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 12 July 2020 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | 3
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So only white people can be affected by political correctness?
Imagine if they had said some of these comments in the West.
Edited by Neil Lindholm on 12 July 2020 at 10:11pm
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2163
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 2:26am | IP Logged | 4
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This is one of those "chicken or the egg" debates.
Was trump brought to power more by support from racism or people who hate
political correctness?
Well considering of the most politically incorrect things to say is racist
remarks, I would say the answer is both.
Edited by Paul Kimball on 13 July 2020 at 2:31am
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 5
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While there are some interesting discussions to be in the area of academic freedom at universities, the vast majority of handwringing over "cancel culture" is overwrought fear mongering.
Let's discuss what people are labeling "cancel culture":
– Person A uses their freedom of expression to say something that offends a group of people. – People B use their freedom of expression to complain over social media that they will no longer support the product or output of Person A over the thing that was said. – Company C considers the backlash from People B and use their freedom of expression to state that they will no longer associate with Person A.
What do we see every step of the way? Freedom of expression. What is not happening? Censorship. Person A is still free to express whatever it is that people found so offensive; they are just doing it without the support of People B and Company C. So what the "cancel culture" fear mongers are really complaining about is not the infringement of free expression, but their loss of freedom from consequences.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 6
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I think reducing anyone down to a caricature leads to no good. Stories, theatre, art, etc. have certain tropes employed to communicate visually. I think reducing any human being to a racial caricature, even if there is no malice intended, is the first step toward a detrimental end.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:24am | IP Logged | 7
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It should come down to context. A fellow teacher (who happens to be a black man from Florida) said it best. A Chinese teacher came in the office and was talking to him. At the end of the conversation he said "Wow, you sure are articulate!" as he left the room. Looking at the black teacher, he just smiled. He said that since the man made the statement with no malice, it did not bother him. He said that he doesn't care at all what words people say to him, as it all depends on context. Now, imagine what would happen if the same person had said that in a Western school (with the same context) and in earshot of the perpetually offended. Re-education camp, abject and grovelling public apologies and probable job-loss.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 5:31am | IP Logged | 8
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"Wow, you sure are articulate!"•• Mind you, that falls under what has been called "the subtle racism of diminished expectations."
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 9
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Add the Washington football team to the list: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/07/12/report-wash ington-name-to-be-retired-on-monday/
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12429
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| "Wow, you sure are articulate!" |
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Reminds me of this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=0mc7fYXmTu8
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 11
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Weird, isn't it, that so many White people tend to assume Black people are somehow of diminished mental capacity, while Asians are assumed to be wise and even cunning.Cliches run deep, too.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7605
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| Posted: 13 July 2020 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 12
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While I do think Cancel Culture is being heavily over
rated, there is something about no platforming writ
large that can be a worry.
I'll give two examples of what I mean.
1) I have been working in Israel for about a year and a
half - in the northern part. We have had many
discussions of the politics of Israel, the policies and
the tactics used to enact those policies. Now, the
people I work with do not like the current government.
There is clear nuance between criticising the policies
of a government, and even the government itself to
criticising Israeli people as a people group.
One is a political discussion, one is racist. And yet, I
see a lot of instances where the former is classes as
anti-semetic. It isn't, it's a discussion on policy.
2) J K Rowling has come in for an incredible amount of
criticism after she tweeted about 'if only there was
some other word that we had to describe people rather
than 'people who menstruate''.
That is a valid point - People who menstruate is a
ridiculous term to have to use in an attempt to not
offend people who have transitioned when talking about
people who were born female - women.
People who menstruate actually dismisses any woman who
has passed the menopause which I'm sure was not the
intent.
But my point is, I think both those examples are worthy
of a debate, rather than both being shut down as a)
anti-semetic or b) anti trans.
Neither are the thing they are being accused of.
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