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Matt Reed
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Andy Mokler wrote:
 Michael Roberts wrote:
Which again speaks to the idea that funding be allocated to people trained to deal with these things, rather than unis and detectives.

So, you agree with me.  I'm all for specialized units that can focus and concentrate on specific crimes.  That's what CSI and CODIS and coroners and the like are for.

CODIS isn't a "specialized unit".   It's kinda cute that you think it is.  It's actually the acronym for the Combined DNA Index System and is the generic term used to describe the FBI's program of support for criminal justice DNA databases as well as the software used to run them.

And CSI isn't really a thing.  Sure, there are Crime Scene Investigators, but, really, saying you're pro "CSI" just means your a fan of a TV series.  You can use that as a way to think you know more than you do, but, let's be honest....
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 2:01am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

No, it isn't a unit but it is a tool developed and implemented in the '90's to help aid the police in solving crimes.  Many police departments don't have CSI units but no one said that every department did.  I merely use it as an example of how a specialized unit can aid a police department.  Same thing with the coroner.  They all supplement the police in what they do.

Why does it seem so important to you to have a "gotcha" moment?  Is polite conversation not good enough for you.  Well, we know the answer to that but I haven't done anything but disagree with you, explain my POV and give examples of how I came to that POV.  Why so angry?


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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Another black voice. Curious to hear why he's wrong.

óó

Perhaps youíd like to pick out a particular argument and debate it? Iíll point out that if you go to a Quillette writer and member of the IDW, youíll get a specific point of view. What else would you expect him to say?
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 2:28am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Andy Mokler wrote:
Why does it seem so important to you to have a "gotcha" moment?

It's not important for me at all.  But you decided to use two acronyms as a point of specialized contact to defend your position.  I really don't think it out of bounds to call into question either of them, especially in the flawed context in which you choose to use them.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 3:22am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Andy Mokler wrote:
Black on black crime.  Fatherless homes.  Crime.  Drugs.  All of these things are much bigger problems than a supposed systemic problem with the police specifically targeting blacks.  The issues with the police simply are not targeted toward blacks.  The police have issues that they need to continually strive to better.  But the numbers just don't show a predisposition to single out blacks.  White men, statistically, are far more likely to be shot by a cop than black men.

There is so much bile and abject awfulness in this quote as to make me physically ill.  This is an outright denial and obfuscation of any responsibility. It's putting it all on the "other" and blaming them for their own plights (a tried and true method) .  It's a manipulation of certain formula and a pointing to specific outliers as being the actual fact while discounting hundreds (thousands) of others in service of confirmation bias.  It's looking for facts in number that you can taint.  

At the end?  Andy's conclusion is that White people are far more disposed to death by racial means than African Americans.

Seriously.  

Any person with two eyes and a beating heart can tell you that's not true...except the Andy's of the world.  No. He'll tell you that he is, in fact, the oppressed race.  His Whiteness actually makes him more susceptible to diabetes, high blood pressure, death by cop and a whole host of comorbities that have been typically associated with African Americans for decades...but he'll want to claim them as his own nonetheless.  

He is shameless in his abject use of tropes that are at least 40 years old, (but more than likely older) and is unapologetic in proclaiming his hurt as a white dude.  He'll also more than readily say that "all lives are equal" and, specifically, that his lived experience is as important as anyone's, hands down. Then he'll point to his research, a quick 10 second Google search to affirm what he already believes.  

All of this, ALL OF THIS, to make him feel better that there is no systemic racism in the police force at all.  It's just a "few bad apples" which, BTW, they said 53 years ago and then said 23 years ago and now are saying...now.  

But, ya know, business as usual...right, Andy?
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 4:22am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

White men are statistically more likely to be shot by a cop than black
men?! You canít possibly believe that? Just yesterday I posted a
statistic from a site you were referencing. A statistic that partially refutes
your horribly idiotic statement, Andy. What the actual fuck is wrong with
you?!
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 4:55am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Police: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

Damn. Especially the woman at the end. 
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

And the followup:

John Oliver Breaks Down What Defunding the Police Means
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The broad and destructive interpretations of the Second Amendment have pushed police into the position of occupying forces. Thatís the point from which any corrective measures must begin. As long as every police officer knows that anyone they stop for any reason can potentially pull a gun and shoot them, there is going to be overreaction. Overreaction, in fact, is one of the things human beings, singly and in groups, seem to do best.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:
White men are statistically more likely to be shot by a cop than black men?! You canít possibly believe that? Just yesterday I posted a 
statistic from a site you were referencing. A statistic that partially refutes 
your horribly idiotic statement, Andy. What the actual fuck is wrong with 
you?!

I'm assuming that he was trying to say that more white men are killed by cops. Which is true by virtue of them making up a larger share of the population. But that's not the same thing as saying that white men are more likely to be killed than black men.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

The broad and destructive interpretations of the Second Amendment have pushed police into the position of occupying forces.

----

Increasingly, the people who advocate those 2A positions are the ones who are becoming cops.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"Defunding" might be, as Vinnie noted pages above, a
distracting word since the many different kinds of
suggested changes to police forces it seems to encompass
are not all about dollars and cents.

I can tell you for sure that where I live, in Nassau
County, Long Island, New York, and county cops earn at
minimum over $100K in salary, with all kinds of incredible
benefits, overtime, health, retirement, etc., any
suggestion of "defunding" is not going to be accepted by
the police so easily...!
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