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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 813
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 1
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"I don't know how his defense plans to make a reasonable case."
You have to play the cards you're dealt.
The actions of the officers were inexcusable, so I'd imagine the main focus of the defense will be the drugs in Floyd's system, and how they may have contributed to the cause of death.
If they can convince jurors that Floyd would not have died absent the drugs, then they could argue the officers did not know their actions would result in death, and did not intend to kill Floyd.
At the very least, that gets the charges dropped from Second Degree Murder (a deliberate but unplanned killing) to manslaughter. That could save them a lot of jail time.
Its a stretch, because as noted by the prosecutor Chauvin "stayed on his neck as Floyd flailed and had seizures for 53 seconds, and then remained on a non-responsive Floyd for another 3 minutes and 51 seconds" But I don't see what else you could argue here. Crappy case for the defense.
Edited by John Wickett on 29 March 2021 at 11:52am
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4583
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 2
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If they try to bring in Floyd's character, which should be entirely beside the point other than he was the subject of the call, that will lead to another crazy Trayvon Martin as 'armed' with the sidewalk decision.
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 813
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ordinarily, Floyd's character would be irrelevant, but they could raise it in this case because Chauvin and Floyd knew each other. So the purpose would be to show how Chauvin's decisions were influenced by what he already knew about Floyd (assuming he perceived Floyd as dangerous to the officers).
I wouldn't be surprised to see this, but I don't think it would be very helpful to the defense, because the video clearly shows Floyd was not violently resisting. He literally laid there and let them kill him.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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It seems pretty obvious to me. After Floyd lost consciousness, he stopped being a threat, right? A reasonable police officer would have thrown him in the back seat, taken him in, and "another crazy negro in jail."
That is horrific in itself (and you know the quote didn't use "negro") but that asshole cop couldn't stop himself. Why? WHO CARES?!?!? Whatever happened to "CRAZY" as a cause? "Dirty no good dirt-eating little bastard" works too, but this damned cop had NO SENSE OF HUMAN LIFE. No matter white, black, or martian. He had a man's life in his hands and KILLED HIM.
They can't sentence this fucker to enough life sentences, for my money.
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 813
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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"It seems pretty obvious to me. After Floyd lost consciousness, he stopped being a threat, right?"
Personally, I don't see any point on that video where he was a threat. He resisted being placed in the back seat, but he never attacked an officer, or threatened to attack and officer.
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3168
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 6
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Eric Sofer wrote:
but that asshole cop couldn't stop himself. Why? WHO CARES?!?!? |
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No.
No.
All this does is place the blame for the system in the 'bad apples' basket. Chauvin had close to twenty misconduct complaints against him and all but two of them were outright ignored by the department - and the other two only resulted in a letter or reprimand. The problem is the attitudes on the force, the lax oversight, and imbalanced policing. The Chauvin case is the very literal definition of 'systemic racism.'
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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In addition to several drugs in his system, Floyd had COVID and heart disease. From the "real" news website of NPR:
There were no signs of strangulation or asphyxiation.
I think Floyd died from neglect by the officers, who performed no CPR on him when he stopped breathing. I don't know if that is the same as outright murder.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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Always glad to have the input of the coroners from the JBF to identify cause of death based on articles from reputable news agencies. Does anyone have a scan of the death certificate? I'm sure it reads, "died from neglect" somewhere.
Did you even read the article you linked? The Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression", not neglect. =/ While this differs from the conclusion reached by the examiner hired by the Floyd family, it does point to law enforcement as the cause and not neglect.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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I understand that to mean the cops sent Floyd over the edge into a heart attack. You wouldn't normally associate a relatively young guy like him with a frail heart. But then again, those on drugs suffer cardiac failure all the time. Maybe the cops knew that's could have happened when they restrained him, and left him to die when it did happen. Is there such a thing as murderous neglect?
Point is, with COVID and heart disease, Floyd was already in very bad shape before he ran into the cops, before he took the drugs. Worse than he would have appeared to be.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 29 March 2021 at 7:22pm
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Jason K Fulton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2016 Location: United States Posts: 703
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Joe, you seem to be edging really close to "he was asking for it" territory, and it is goddamn disgusting. Maybe just step away from this thread, buddy.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14819
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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Point is, with COVID and heart disease, Floyd was already in very bad shape before he ran into the cops, before he took the drugs. Worse than he would have appeared to be.
-----
Point is that Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for nine and half minutes, and reducing airflow for that long would affect a lot of people deleteriously. Trying to suggest that Floyd was some fragile flower and partially at fault for drug use is a bunch of gaslighting bullshit.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 12
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So it's not a discussion, but a pitchfork party. OK fine.
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