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Giorgos Goumas
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

RIP, Kobe was one of the greats in basketball history and he had still much to offer to the sport from other positions. Trully saddened by the loss of so many young people, always a shock when such an accident happens.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

My understanding is there was one disputed encounter in a Colorado hotel in 2003, that Bryant took responsibility not denying it happened and saying he was working on seeing how it could have been non-consentual from the woman's point of view. If there is more than that I haven't known it.

There is something sick in the strange people who I saw appear in various places online seeming to celebrate this crash as some divine act of justice. Certainly as bad as the thing they are making a show of condemning. Do they really think so many people, men and women, young and old, would speak so highly of someone who was anything like Weinstein or Cosby?
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Kobe admitted to having sex with his accuser but always claimed he felt it was totally consensual at the time.   The criminal case was dismissed when the accuser refused to testify after apparently doing very poorly in a mock trial ahead of her testimony date where she was at best inconsistent in her testimony and at worst came off as unconvincing.  DNA evidence also came out that strongly suggested the accuser had had sex with someone else within 15 hours after the alleged incident with Kobe.  Neither of these facts means that she was or was not telling the truth but they do make things less cut and dried in my mind.

We'll never know the truth of what happened in Colorado so I choose to focus on the truths I do know.  Kobe was a complicated individual.  He could be a prickly teammate if he didn't feel you were giving your best effort.   He was a great passer but had a reputation for selfishness and wanting to take the big shot, sometimes at the expense of someone  with a better shot.  He did make many of those big shots (5 rings) but there were purportedly NBA stars who had the chance to play with him but may have opted against doing so because of Kobe's rep for competitiveness and being hard to be around.  

Kobe compartmentalized his life, apparently giving up many personal relationships and vacations and sugar and pizza during his playing years in order to focus on nothing but playing his best basketball.  His perfectionism, continuous hard play and endless work ethic probably wore his body down so that his last three or so years were diminished.  But he gave everything he had physically and mentally to the Lakers and the NBA for 20 seasons (a record for continuous play with one team) and he was well known for his charitable work in the community and for being a dedicated and loving family man despite those aforementioned complicated aspects.
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Just to add:  he was often in the way of my Celtics and though they beat him in 2008 he stole a title away from them in 2010 so for many of his years I wasn't much of a fan.   In the later years I came to appreciate the dedication and craft I saw him putting into his game even on some really atrocious Lakers teams where nobody really noticed or cared and I changed my mind.  There's plenty of hyperbole you can dish about his shotmaking, defense, quick hands, unbelievable footwork, place in the upper echelon of all-time players but for me the first thing I think about when it comes to Kobe is his competitive nature.  In that area, he was second only to Jordan.  I know no higher praise.
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Wilson Mui
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Kobe did decide to settle out of court even though he had
more than enough money to defend himself.

I came across this article from the Daily Beast examining
Kobe's rape case. It mentions how the nurse found
lacerations on the victim's vaginal area that were
consistent with a sexual assault. She also had a small
bruise on her jaw line presumably from Kobe choking her.

LINK

Edited by Wilson Mui on 27 January 2020 at 5:02pm
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I don't want to get too deep into this the day after Kobe just died tragically, but the fact that she had multiple sexual partners directly preceding her police DNA exam (Kobe followed by someone else within 15 hours according to the police) makes it difficult to determine who did what and when.  It's certainly possible Kobe did rape her and regardless he's certainly an adulterer, but I find it hard to fathom why a young woman who claimed she had just been raped would then have sex with someone else right away.  That's far from typical rape victim behavior.  Link

Kobe settled the civil lawsuit out of court.  The criminal case was dropped. 


Edited by Rick Senger on 27 January 2020 at 5:47pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Do they really think so many people, men and women, young and old, would speak so highly of someone who was anything like Weinstein or Cosby?

Many, many people, men and women, young and old spoke very highly of Weinstein and Cosby until very, very, recently.

Just a thought on how the media and public opinion change "labels" very quickly.

Having said that, I don't know the details on the Kobe case and always thought of him as an incredible player and a very nice guy off court.

RIP


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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I cannot find the article now, but a Washington Post reporter was suspended for bringing up the rape case on Twitter yesterday. 

I was up early this morning, and all FIRST TAKE and GET UP were talking about was Kobe's death. Had to put it on UNDISPUTED instead, because they were actually talking about sports! (Though they did talk about Kobe, that wasn't all they were talking about; didja know there's a Super Bowl this coming Sunday?)

On Facebook, most posts were either about either Kobe, the Grammys, or the Kobe tribute at the Grammys.

Reports are saying the helicopter was flying in heavy fog conditions.




Edited by Brian Floyd on 27 January 2020 at 9:24pm
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Wilson Mui
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I think the article you are thinking about is the same one
I posted above. Also, I think the Post reporter was
suspended for showing a screenshot of her email inbox of
people cursing her out not for posting the article.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 27 January 2020 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Different article, and the screenshot of her email was part of the tweet or tweets she posted that got her in trouble.


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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 28 January 2020 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Re: the website The Daily Beast. In a 2015 interview, former editor-in-chief John Avlon described The Beast's editorial approach: "We seek out scoops, scandals, and stories about secret worlds; we love confronting bullies, bigots, and hypocrites."

It looks like they are getting their way by inserting this into a situation of people mourning a tragic and sudden disaster. I don't see the good coming from it but hey, lets all faction off to extreme ends of pure evil versus totally pure victimhood I guess... a lot of people must enjoy it or this wouldn't be the predominant style of the times. How can anyone not damn Kobe Bryant to hell or dare to say anything against the victim who represents all womanhood, yatta yatta... I see no winners. I don't look to websites for quality info, I do look to the Washington Post among other long established entities who have proven their worth. I think the re-distributing reporter did not act in the tradition of quality the company has been known for, and their cyber threats being a story also might seem a joke tempest in a teapot to many where it's common for even five year olds online to get death threats for saying they don't like spinach.

The continual cycle of provocation, inflammation and sustaining outrage and blame is just not what the news of a tragic accident is about. People showing up to 'celebrate' a justified death sentence is every bit as nutso as a fanatic defending a basketball player they enjoyed with hollow threats. Slip slide and away time to plug in to this junk culture I feel. I stand on a middle ground and won't move even if all the virtual extremes or otherwise were to hate me for it. Whatever, heard and seen, time to focus on something positive other than dividing and supposedly conquering?

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 28 January 2020 at 1:18pm
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David Miller
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Posted: 28 January 2020 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It would have taken an awesome degree of prescience for The Daily Beast to insert their article into the mourning surrounding Bryant's death, considering it was published nearly four years ago.  
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