Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Movies
Byrne Robotics > Movies << Prev Page of 3 Next >>
Topic: Why its hard to make a Superman movie Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3439
Posted: 27 January 2020 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I rather agree with you, Brian, but I believe it would have worked better with a two or three teenager gang who kept returning to rob the place, and whom the police couldn't (or wouldn't) stop. But that's a lot of story to cram into a couple of incidental scenes. And I feel the movie would have worked better without it in any case. Why make Clark a super bully? That's not Superman.

THAT is the key to the question. There is no doubt a good Superman movie can be made. I feel that there are a lot of actors who can play Superman, and the first post-credit scene of "Justice League" proved it to me. That was Superman that I recognized.

Mr. Byrne is quite right that "boy scout" is a pejorative that a lot of Superman's fellow heroes began using (of all things! What kind of respect do they show when they call Superman a big blue boy scout?)

So. They need to decide what Superman is, first and foremost. That's easy; the mightiest hero of the planet who espouses truth, justice, and the American way. And they have to be quite aware that the story MUST involve that character. I mean, a beach-blanket-bingo could be fun, even today, but not as a James Bond vehicle. (Or possibly it could, but to make it valid would require a HELL of a lot more effort than I think directors want to put into a movie, more's the pity.)

Then they have to determine what SOLVABLE challenge can they present to Superman. Superman 2, Man of Steel, and Justice League had Superman countered by anti-Superman - a threat that is as powerful as Superman (or moreso if there are more anti-Supermans.) Superman has to find a way to out-think them, because he cannot outpower them.

Ironically, Superman, Superman 3, and Superman Returns had the opposite challenge - someone who is smarter than Superman*. Twice it's Luthor. I guess Superman 4 is kinda up in the air between the two of these, but who talks about Superman 4?

What kind of challenge then? Is it a threat to Superman or a threat to society (local, national, or worldwide?) Is it death and destruction, tyranny and dictatorship, or some other challenge?

This is the difficulty of a Superman movie, but when the elements are laid out, I don't think they're especially hard to address and put together**.  But it's not easy... then again, if they want to make Avengers-level money, maybe it's WORTH the effort.

*In "Frederich Neitzsche and the Power of Transfiguration", he describes Sigfried as "very brave and very strong and very handsome and very stupid." Sounds like a formula used far too many times.

**Says the big mouth who's never made a movie!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16208
Posted: 27 January 2020 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply


 QUOTE:
*I still take issue with how the film finished Cap's story arc. I don't think he'd be that selfish. A happy ending for Chris Evans but not a proper way for Cap to finish.


Agreed. Oh, and his shield should never be broken. Ever.


 QUOTE:
Both the George Reeves tv show and the Christopher Reeves movies got it right *.


Yup. George Reeves remains my favorite live action Superman to this day.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 27 January 2020 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Standing up to a bully does not make Clark a bully. He's teaching "Mr. Wonderful" a lesson and playing a bit to the crowd who, after taking guff off this jerk for far too long, needed to see him taken down a peg or two. In essence, he's protecting the innocent, one aluminum modular diner at a time. :-)

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 27 January 2020 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As for Cap's story in Endgame, soldiers get to come home from the war and marry their sweethearts. They're not selfish for doing so, and neither is Cap.

We don't know what his involvement in history is after that, whether it took place in this timeline or some other, and the film seems deliberately vague on those points. Nevertheless, Cap gets to stop fighting and spend his life with Peggy. You'd think you had the right were your positions reversed, and you'd be right. 

Yes, it isn't 100% in keeping with the Cap from the comics who will go on fighting forever because, well, comics and we have to keep these IP's paying, but in the films? Chris Evans' contract was up and Cap's tour of duty had ended years before. He'd lived the past five years on the run from the government and put himself out there as much as anyone had. Soldiers get to come home after the war. We owe them that and a lot more besides.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2871
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

MCU Cap has given all he had to country and cause.  

He DESERVED to have that life with Peggy.  In fact they deserved to find each other.  Their last scene together made me very happy.  

But...the adventures Captain America MUST HAVE HAD returning each of the Infinity Stones to their rightful place would make for some really...really good stories.

If Chris Evans is truly done with the MCU, Id love to see Disney+ do an animated Captain America: Mission Infinity series highlighting his tasks of returning the stones.

Each stone would represent an episode.  Wed get to see how harrowing and risky it was to fulfill his missions.  Wed get to see how he got that new shield made too.   I think that would be a great series.

As for Superman in the movies...
To me...Cavill physically is near perfect for the role of Superman.  His Clark Kent could use some work.  But its mainly the people behind the camera and the scripts that have let him down. 

 



Edited by David Allen Perrin on 28 January 2020 at 7:34am
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118748
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Oh, and his shield should never be broken. Ever.

Tell that to Jim Shooter.

Hollywood, in fact, brings much of that Shooteresque "I Can Do ANYTHING" attitude to the table. Respect for the characters is subordinated to the story to be told.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 7130
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Regarding the SUPERMAN 2 ending scene in the diner with Clark teaching the bully trucker a lesson...

I always took it as nod to the old Charles Atlas comic book ads, with Clark saying he's been working out.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118748
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Sure, but the scene belongs in a comic from 1938, not a movie from more than 40 years later.

Superman in his early days routinely beat up powerless badguys. But a Superman who can literally lift the San Andreas fault? Then HE becomes the bully.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10790
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The trucker's comeuppance was nothing but an attempt at a
cheap laugh. Meant to be cartoonish but still appearing
pointlessly cruel. Totally out of character for Superman.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2673
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Yeah, Superman going back at all is the problem.  However they choose to show what happens when he gets there is already past the point.  If they simply HAD to have Superman get revenge, he should have coincidentally encountered him in Metropolis.  

IMO, Superman, as Clark, only if he'd accidentally crossed paths with the trucker, would have found a way to let the trucker embarrass himself and socially neuter him.  He wouldn't physically beat him.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6745
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Marvel has had the shield broken far too many times. It happening in ENDGAME was seriously disappointing. And how did Steve get it fixed? Or did he just go back in time and steal it from himself like Thor did with Mjolnir?

I have a question about the shield I'm going to go ask in the main forum, now that I think of it....
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3439
Posted: 28 January 2020 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

In point of fact, Clark Kent never treated Steve Lombard that way, I think. So sure... let's just write it off to a bad attempt at a cheap laugh. Probably best.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 3 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login