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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 20 January 2020 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'm of the age where Mike Zeck was the Captain America artist. I don't know who that would be today. Steve Epting?
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7979
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| Posted: 20 January 2020 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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Here's a little bit of trivia! Mike Zeck and I both
went to South Broward High School in South Florida.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30899
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| Posted: 20 January 2020 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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Epting maybe 10 years ago.
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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1464
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| Posted: 20 January 2020 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yes, a lower one.
More proof of our host's insufferable ego! :)
I'm a huge Mike Zeck fan, but he never got to the "superstar artist" level I think, as many, many other incredibly talented pencillers (David Mazzucchelli also comes to mind).
Do you have a theory on why it happens for some but not for other hugely talented artists, JB?
In your case, I think you have a "touch" that makes the characters and layouts instantly iconic, even when I was 8 years old I could easily tell a Byrne comic from others and preferred them.
It probably didn't hurt that you were also writing the scripts and had complete control over the whole comic (at least in FF and Superman). Frank Miller also benefited from a similar effect, I believe. But that's just my impression.
Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 20 January 2020 at 11:56pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 5
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Do you have a theory on why it happens for some but not for other hugely talented artists, JB?•• Two factors primarily, I think: One, of course, is the often unreadable, unpredictable fan mentality. Why choose A over B, when A is clearly superior? Why laud Rob Liefeld and dismiss John Romita Jr? (Part of it has to do with the power of the DSM, which anoints various "hot" artists without any consideration of actual talent.) Second is exposure. Fans sometimes seem to have short attention spans, and if an artist is not "in their face" all the time, s/he can slip under their radar.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 6
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The DeMatteis / Zeck run doesn't seem to get the credit it deserves. One thing I liked was they kept the elements going that Roger Stern and JB introduced: Brooklyn Heights, the neighbours as supporting characters and Bernice.
The Deathlok story they did is not only a great Cap story, Deathlok story, but a great head trip about time travel and paradoxes.
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Greg McPhee
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 7
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In fact, apart from Master of Kung Fung and Captain America I don't recall Mike Zeck ever having a run as long as that again on a title, on the interior art.
Edited by Greg McPhee on 21 January 2020 at 9:41am
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16430
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 8
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My own theory for why some talented artists are fan favorites while others are not has to do with that indefinable "it" quality. Even artists of lessor skill than an experienced draftsman can have that certain "it" in their work. This "it" thing can apply to other fields of entertainment, though in a field such as acting, it could be defined as "charisma." But back to comics, it's basically like the Joker said in 1989's "Batman," "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."
For whatever reason, some have "it," and others simply don't. And that "it" is some appeal that's based on some gut reaction to a work that doesn't necessarily have to be based on actual skill and draftsmanship alone, if at all.
Rob Liefeld has a number of flaws, for instance, but he apparently has the "it" factor, particularly with a certain generation of fans. Meanwhile, somebody like Mike Zeck, with superior anatomy and perspective, and a solid artist all around, never quite reached true fan favorite status.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 21 January 2020 at 11:10am
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4525
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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Maybe Mike Zeck got burned out on changes to Secret Wars? I remember reading something about how he had to keep redoing parts at Shooter's command. I remember some great semi-pro comics by Zeck from a Fantaco b&w comic titled Alien Encounters... there was a fun little alien with the sniffles piece and an alternate alien child arrives in a rocket in a rural setting! If you can look good in b&w it means you are good.
While we're going off-topic this suddenly reminds me there was something I once read about a Stern & Byrne Captain America story with the Red Skull that could've followed #254/255... my head is still full of all this comics stuff from thirty-forty years ago...
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1648
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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I loved Mike Zeck's Captain America. And I loved his art on the first issue of Secret Wars. But as a know-nothing kid, I was put off by what I could clearly see as devolving art over the course of Secret Wars. By issue 12 it looked like MZ was doodling, and others were helping him finish the issue. I've never pursued the real story behind what happened, just relating what I thought as a kid, and which thus discouraged me from pursuing Mike's work thereafter.
The reason I think JB's work is on another level is that even to my inexpert eyes, I can see the difference in the nuances between those two covers: facial shadows, expressions; articulation of hands; a generally more 'plausible' look to the art.
I know it sounds sycophantic, but really, it's that special something that distinguishes the elite from the competent. I don't mean what JB's referring to, which is more a kind of enigmatic charm, or faddish popularity. In this case I literally mean the presence of a level of ability that even a layman can observe.
Or to put it in my 12 year old self's voice: John Byrne's art always looks like what it's supposed to look like, and I enjoy looking at it :)
Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 21 January 2020 at 5:42pm
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Tim Cousar
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Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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I would love to have seen Zeck have a run with the Marvel Family.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
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| Posted: 21 January 2020 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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By the way, just to right a wrong, here's what Mike Zeck said regarding what happened on the Secret Wars series, in case anyone, like me, is ignorant of why the artwork looks the way it does:
QUOTE:
| Other than the two fill-in issues (#s 4 and 5), the pencils, or more often breakdowns, were mine only. We were always right up against the deadline wall with every issue, which is one reason why it was necessary for me to revert to breakdowns. Also a reason why pages were given to other inkers as needed. I remember Art Nichols being somewhat regular as a last minute inker. Joe Rubinstein too, I believe. They were both local and able to come into the offices to pick up or deliver pages. That double-sized final issue was spread even more widely among inkers. I'm not even sure how many guys or who they were. I do recognize a few Art Adams inked pages in that last issue though. That last issue is the one that could easily confuse readers in terms of various ink styles. |
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Which explains why the art goes from looking rich and what we were used to from MZ, like this in issue #1:
To this rather more sparse and un-Zeck like result in issue #12:
Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 21 January 2020 at 6:11pm
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