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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

And, I think, if the British people were unaccepting of
Meghan, the reaction to her departure would be 'good
riddance'. In contrast, I think, the reaction is more
along the lines of a feeling of rejection that she is
not staying.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply


 QUOTE:
Remember when Meghan married Harry, and the streets of the UK were lined with people burning their Union Flags in protest? No, me neither.

Thanks for the predictable answer.

Remember when Obama was elected the President of the United States? It was the end of racism! I mean it's not like a portion of the country freaked out and elected an idiot for President in response.

I always find there to be this wide gulf between white people who seem to think racism means the KKK and neo-Nazis and burning crosses and POC who are less concerned with the openly bigoted (because assholes be assholes) and more concerned with the more insidious, unconscious forms of racism.

When we are discussing racism with regard to Meghan Markle, we are not talking about Britons openly or secretly hating black people, we are talking about her consciously or unconsciously being treated differently than a white woman Harry might have married.


 QUOTE:
I know little about Meghan Markle, but given her estrangement from her father, and strained relationship with her half-sister, is it possible that she just has a knack for rubbing people up the wrong way?

You obviously know little. Because her father and half-sister (who she did not grow up with) used her impending marriage to get attention in the tabloids. And she is the one distancing herself from them (rightfully, I think). So how is she the one rubbing people the wrong way?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply


 QUOTE:
And, I think, if the British people were unaccepting of 
Meghan, the reaction to her departure would be 'good 
riddance'. In contrast, I think, the reaction is more 
along the lines of a feeling of rejection that she is 
not staying.

The reaction is that she is ungrateful for the opportunity that she was given, which is not incompatible with the idea that there are racist overtones to Meghan's treatment.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Judging someone for what actions they take is racist?
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

And to clarify, I don't categorise the reaction as you
do. I see it as the British people want her to stay. They
like her.

Edited to say: And when I say 'they', I mean 'we', as I
am British.

Edited by Peter Martin on 12 January 2020 at 9:45pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
Judging someone for what actions they take is racist?


If that is your interpretation of what I wrote, then you should go with that.
Trying to understand other perspectives is not important.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 January 2020 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply


 QUOTE:
And to clarify, I don't categorise the reaction as you
do. I see it as the British people want her to stay. They
like her.


Also, so no one is confused, no one is declaring the British people as a whole
of being racist against Markle. I was talking about the criticisms of Markle in
traditional and social media, not people who are just upset that she is leaving.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 13 January 2020 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Michael, you are seeing racism where none exists, and it
seems you refuse to see any other viewpoint, even ones
from people who actually live here. We are a very
accepting and inclusive multi-cultural society.
Obviously there are a few bad apples, but they are a
minority.

Leigh DJ Hunt wrote "Well hopefully then Bill, you don't
buy any of the papers in the Royal Rota or visit their
websites" Try turning on tv news to see what else is
going on in the world, or the radio etc there`s no
escape!
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 13 January 2020 at 2:42am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"Trying to understand other perspectives is not
important"

This cuts both ways, Michael. You don't seem particularly
interested in absorbing feedback from actual British
people who in all likelihood have a better perspective of
the dynamics of the relationship between the royal family
and the British public.

Everyone can express an opinion and not being from a
country doesn't mean you can't have a view on things
going on in a country, of course. Heaven knows, I am
posting enough about things in other countries; often
about the head of state of the US.

But I genuinely think you're off the mark thinking this
is about race.

I view Harry and Meghan as no different from each other
in this debacle. They can both extricate themselves
entirely from the royal family and that's fine. Have
their privacy back, disappear to do whatever they want; I
don't give a shit if they literally just want out.

But the situation is more complex than that, because they
aren't just opting out and there is a strong argument to
be made that their actions are undermining the royal
family, and may continue to do so as time progresses.

Britain is a constitutional monarchy and though the royal
family has no real powers and is in some ways a weirdly
feudal hangover, it does I believe offer benefits as a
fulcrum of national unity. Anyone rocking that boat is
not doing the nation any favours, therefore. And having
the 6th and 7th in line to the throne running off to live
in another country has the potential to fundamentally
rock the boat, not to mention the can of worms of
exploiting their position of privilege for commercial
benefit. Which is why I'm not over the moon about this.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 13 January 2020 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Strange how on the Tragedy or Culling The Herd thread we
are discussing people of many colours and races taking
desperate measures to get into our supposedly racist
country, and not just stowing away in aircraft landing
gear. They try to cross the English Channel in flimsy,
overloaded boats, or stow away in the Freezer units of
lorries. Racist U.K.? Stop believing your biased U.S.
media!
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Andrew Saxon
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Posted: 13 January 2020 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don't think many Americans understand the power and the toxicity of the British tabloid press. In the US you have the polarization of Fox News and MSNBC which has some parallels but is not the same. The Daily Mail, the Sun, the Telegraph etc. are really consumed in unfounded incendiary toxic gossip that gets downright cruel. They hounded Princess Diana to her death and they thought they had a new target with Meghan. Now they are outraged because she is leaving.

I have to say, I give out a hollow little laugh whenever I hear the term 'free press' used in this country - free as in it is owned by billionaire tax exiles. Every day these rags drip-feed right-wing bile and propaganda into the minds of those who read them. I'm sorry to disagree with my fellow Brit, Bill, but Britain HAS become a very racist and intolerant society (or maybe it always was but Brexit has given the racists the feeling they can be more out in the open about it), and I put a great deal of the blame on our tabloids and their unaccountable owners. I had a little bit of hope things might change when Rupert Murdoch was forced to appear before the Leveson Inquiry, but ultimately that came to nothing.

I'm no royalist, but I do remember Harry as a little boy walking behind his mother's coffin, and I can fully understand and support him not wanting the same thing to happen to his wife. Maybe Harry has been on a collision course with the tabloids since the day his mother died, but good on him for standing up for the woman he loves.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 14 January 2020 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I canít post in that thread so if Matt or Tim could move this there that would be appreciated, thanks.

I really do think this move comes from Harryís strained relationship with the press & the way they hounded his mother (especially her death) & the way they have started to go for his wife.

I think to say the U.K. is not racist is to be living with your head in the sand.

I do youth work @ a place not a million miles from Bill & the comments I hear are incredible.itís like someone is reading the front page of some of the tabloids.
Complaints about stealing jobs, taking houses, not speaking English & creating their own shops, lowering school standards due to lack of English, claiming dole, destroying the NHS etc etc etc
You should have heard the outcry over the last Labour candidate. Now, granted, some was because he lived in London & there were some questions about his finances, but many, many, were about his Turkish heritage.

What is really interesting is that the number of people not born in the U.K. living in the area is actually small. But the number of people of different ethnic descent is much higher, & therefore appears to be an issue.

I think to link the desire of people who are trying to get into the country by foul means with ergo the U.K. is not seen as racist is a huge mistake. The people trying to get into the country are spectacularly mis-informed. Remember, they think the journey will not be as hard as it is, probably donít know the percentage of deaths that occur, & think there is a job @ the other end, not some form of slavery. So yeah, they are informed by some pretty unscrupulous people as to the situation in the U.K. 
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