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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

TOS’s approach to “diversity” often involved “colorblind casting”, where characters were not reflexively cast as White.

(It occurs to me that I may have learned my own habit of doing this at Roddenberry’s metaphorical knee.)

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Commodore Mendez is an excellent example of that.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"I believe it is stated in that story that the two are latent mutants whose powers were triggered by the drug experiments performed upon them."

"Latent mutants." I suppose that would include Peter Park and Bruce Banner also.

What an awful phrase.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

OK final reply to Michael, who seems to want to keep ratcheting the insults up a notch. I'd be pleased to oblige mate, except this is JB's house and I'm not going to go there. Suffice it to say that you're not comprehending, much less addressing my point, which I'll spell out for you in single sentences:

Hollywood is chasing diversity in the 21st century because of $$.

NBC was chasing diversity in the 1960s because of $$.

Neither case is implicitly admirable; it's not pursuit of social justice, it's a hit-and-miss approach based on greed, and can have negative consequences.

For example, it exacerbates division and polarization, and can result in a backlash. Like Trumpism.

There is a nuanced, correct, "natural" way to do things, like Roddenberry's initial idea for Star Trek, and crewmembers like Sulu and Uhura, or Ellen Ripley in the Alien franchise.

There is a ham-fisted, jarring, wrong way to do things, like jamming Chekov into TOS, or doing "all-female" remakes, or bragging about how many female directors you have regardless of quality of work.

Ultimately, social change needs to be incrementally and appropriately introduced, otherwise you get - and I say this for the umpteenth time - resistance, and even backlash,when the pendulum swings too far, too quickly. I won't cite a specific piece of work because (a) you won't read it; and (b) you'd claim bias. Simply Google "rapid social change" and see what Sociologists say.

And please, save the clever retort citing slavery or the vote for women, because they're extreme examples. It is recognised that you can't abolish slavery or give the vote to women incrementally; they're a binary state of affairs. Note also that the abolition of slavery did lead to massive disruption and harm, but again, there likely wasn't any way around that. I'm pretty sure that diversity needn't be introduced in the same way as ceasing slavery.


That's it. No parting jibe. I'm out.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply


 QUOTE:
Hollywood is chasing diversity in the 21st century because of $$.

NBC was chasing diversity in the 1960s because of $$.

Yes. But motive is irrelevant. It's like saying a line pf scientific research is bad because it motivated by companies seeking profit. What matters is execution.


 QUOTE:
There is a nuanced, correct, "natural" way to do things

You keep repeating this, but have yet to articulate it anyway where "natural" is anything but arbitrary and defined by what you are comfortable with.


 QUOTE:
There is a ham-fisted, jarring, wrong way to do things, like jamming Chekov into TOS, or doing "all-female" remakes, or bragging about how many female directors you have regardless of quality of work.

I'm not sure what Roddenberry wanting a Davy Jones from the Monkees character has anything to do with diversity.


 QUOTE:
Ultimately, social change needs to be incrementally and appropriately introduced, otherwise you get - and I say this for the umpteenth time - resistance, and even backlash,when the pendulum swings too far, too quickly. I won't cite a specific piece of work because (a) you won't read it; and (b) you'd claim bias. Simply Google "rapid social change" and see what Sociologists say.

They'd say that Functionalism in sociology is as outdated as Behaviorism is in psychology?


 QUOTE:
And please, save the clever retort citing slavery or the vote for women, because they're extreme examples. It is recognised that you can't abolish slavery or give the vote to women incrementally; they're a binary state of affairs. Note also that the abolition of slavery did lead to massive disruption and harm, but again, there likely wasn't any way around that. I'm pretty sure that diversity needn't be introduced in the same way as ceasing slavery.

If you want to reply to my posts in the future, please respond to things I actually said and stop making arguments against things I never said. I cited desegregation as a situation where people wanted to gradually ease into in order to avoid backlash. That's not a binary state of affairs. It could have been approached that way. And it would have been wrong.


 QUOTE:
That's it. No parting jibe. I'm out.

Bye?



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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 20 January 2020 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I was flipping thru some NEXT MEN yesterday, and I got to wondering if Gillian/Gil qualifies as "transgender". Born female, but that body died very early on, and her mind took up residence in her brother's body. Over the years, bodies of different genders followed--including one Lesbian--until, toward the end, Gil claims to have settled in a male form only for convenience, and to not really identify as either gender.
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
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Posted: 20 January 2020 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I think it's fitting today to quote MLK Jr:

For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in
the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This
"Wait" has almost always meant "Never."
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 122339
Posted: 20 January 2020 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Reminiscent of gun fetishists who claim that the immediate aftermath of yet another mass shooting is “too soon” to be discussing gun control.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 20 January 2020 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

About Chekov, I have mixed feelings. Regardless of his
Monkees-inspired inclusion, adding a Russian to the crew,
and in such a prominent post on the bridge, made sense,
even if it dated the show a little, because it portrayed
something necessary, i.e., that humanity could not have
reached that far without first settling its own wars, hot
or cold, on earth. However, both Chekov's sometimes silly
accent slips and his even more silly opinion that
everything good was somehow of Russian origin... well, that
was just silly. (Still not sure why Chekov is an example of
diversity? Among nations? Wouldn't Scotty count then too?)
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