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Peter Martin
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


 QUOTE:
Good mutants were detected further afield as
cerebro's range was increased perhaps?

---------------------
I think it was Moira MacTaggart who published a paper
identifying a correlation with the rate of mutants
appearing and the sales figures of the X books.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Ask Terry Austin how he felt about being told Cloak and Dagger had to be mutants.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I thought Chris had established them as mutants a while before Terry
started writing them.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I thought Chris had established them as mutants a while before Terry started writing them.

If so, Terry was unaware of it. He grumbled to me when forced to make the "change".

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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I suppose I could go "digging" on the net to find out whether or not Cloak & Dagger being mutants turned out to be a "hoax," but does anyone here already know?

Because I really, really hated that. And I don't think it was Claremont who made them mutants. (If he did, I'm sure it was an editorial decision. Even Claremont didn't want every superhero to be a mutant.)
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

People picketing for inclusive representation was shown outside Avengers mansion in some of those late '90s-early '00s Avengers by Kurt Busiek, and that was an extension of #181 circa 1978-79 where the government mandated The Falcon and Ms. Marvel be made Avengers (and dropping a blonde white guy in Hawkeye).

***

I liked that scene. There was a lot of heated debate over affirmative action at that time -- remember Regents of the University of California v. Bakke? -- so that was an example of doing "relevance" without making it heavy-handed or doomed to make no sense once Marvel's sliding timeline slid ever further into the future. It wasn't Steve Englehart's Secret Empire story in CAPTAIN AMERICA or early '70s GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW.

And Hawkeye was always pissed off about something, so it was in keeping with his character.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

My recollection is that Xavier made some comment about them being
mutants in one of those NEW MUTANTS issues C&D appeared in.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I don't have the issues in front of me, but my recollection is that the New Mutants guest-starred in a Marvel Team-Up Annual alongside Spidey and Cloak and Dagger. Near the end of that story, Spidey posits that the two may be mutants and recommends that they visit Professor X at his mansion to check out that possibility.

Soon after, in the New Mutants book itself, with Bill Sienkiewicz doing the art, Ty and Tandy show up to get examined. Somehow, the machinations of the Demon Bear (?) mixes up everyone's powers and Rahne becomes a red-haired possessor of Dagger's magical light, complete with circular eye tattoo, and Roberto becomes a giant black smudge of hungry darkforce energy, growing insane and out of control. In order to save the two, Cloak and Dagger take back their shared curses and leave. 

I believe it is stated in that story that the two are latent mutants whose powers were triggered by the drug experiments performed upon them. As I said, however, I don't have those issues handy at the moment. I do recall that very soon after, Cloak and Dagger's own title was tagged with the "Mutant Misadventures of..." prefix, causing a general eyeroll across fandom.

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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Sigh. I know I shouldn't keep checking this thread, but I do anyway.

 Michael Roberts wrote:
The irony of bringing up Star Trek is that it aired on NBC in the late 60s, during a period that the TV networks (and NBC in particular) were pursuing and advocating the exact ideas of social justice and diversity that you are complaining about.


The irony of you calling this irony is that, ironically, my point was precisely about people like yourself blanket-labelling ALL efforts to be diverse as being praiseworthy, when I was trying to clarify that there is a right way and wrong way of doing it.

So your response, as expected, is to do just that again, highlighting how ALL efforts towards promoting diversity are good by definition, that anybody who who opposes the contrived ones (like Chekov) automatically opposes all diversity (like Sulu and Uhura), and thus is "against social justice and diversity". Brilliant!

Do yourself a favour Michael and don't light a match - you're in a room filled with strawmen!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Google has this to say:

"Cloak and Dagger were considered latent mutants in earlier appearances, whose powers were activated when they were injected with an experimental illegal drug. In later years, they have been listed as mutates, meaning that their powers were derived from an external mutagenic source."

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Was including Chekov really an example of diversity casting? 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
The irony of you calling this irony is that, ironically, my point was precisely about people like yourself blanket-labelling ALL efforts to be diverse as being praiseworthy


Speaking of strawmen, stop making up shit Koroush. I specifically said otherwise in this thread.


 QUOTE:
when I was trying to clarify that there is a right way and wrong way of doing it.


Yes, you are. And my point all along has been to point out that your definition of "right" way and "wrong" way is arbitrary. The criteria you were complaining about in the modern day existed in the example you were praising.


 QUOTE:
So your response, as expected, is to do just that again, highlighting how ALL efforts towards promoting diversity are good by definition, that anybody who who opposes the contrived ones (like Chekov) automatically opposes all diversity (like Sulu and Uhura), and thus is "against social justice and diversity". Brilliant!


I said exactly none of this. What the fuck are you reading, man? My post was response to this:


 QUOTE:
Also, it's not Hollywood's job to pursue social justice. Their job is, and always has been, to pursue profits. Which they're still doing, under the guise of social justice.


The NBC that aired STAR TREK was doing this exact thing you are complaining about. That was my only point. All your blathering about Chekov and Uhura and Sulu is in your own head.


 QUOTE:
Do yourself a favour Michael and don't light a match - you're in a
room filled with strawmen!


I'm not in your room?


Edited by Michael Roberts on 19 January 2020 at 1:44pm
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