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Topic: Greta Thunberg is TIME’s “Person of the Year” Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

What the...

ITEM: I am a baby boomer. I find "Okay boomer" to be offensive. So my lane is... "Okay boomer" seems to be name calling. I don't care the intent of the speaker... I care about the perception of the target.

ITEM: I'm having a misunderstanding again. Are you saying that YOU are not grouping baby boomers together... that social scientits are doing this, and you're using their terminology. I get that, and can't argue with it.

ITEM: It seems that a lot of people use the simplification "baby boomers" as a collective to address actions that weren't taken by people - as you noted, blaming the Baby Boom Generation isn't the same thing as blaming a lot of people who are Baby Boomers. I would hope that people understand that - but it seems that so many don't, any more than some people want to group all the young people* for good things or bad things. I am irked by being lumped into "You baby boomers", as much as I would object to being classified as "You Jews."

I'm trying to point out that when we associate everyone into one group, we're not allowing the differences that could make friends out of enemies. I don't think I'm trying to be offended.

*I don't know the generational classification of today's young adults. Maybe "The Last Generation"?
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

 James Woodcock wrote:
Koroush, you need to look up The Blue Planet II, a programme by the BBC. That’s the footage I was talking about. Most certainly not fake. Has had a massive impact in the U.K. & elsewhere with regards to single use plastics.


I know the issue is real James. My point was that I've never seen this photo which you've automatically assumed everyone has seen, and that in some cases, the one that has been doing the rounds is fake. It simply shows that your assumption that it was this photo(s) which has made people act on single-use plastics may not necessarily be the case. I'm also not sure that there is a great deal of action on single-use plastics right now, especially by the big polluters like China, but I can't find an up-to-date graph; the ones I've seen show its usage increasing exponentially.

Anyway, presumably you're arguing that because people see Greta Thunberg, they will similarly be automatically encouraged to take positive action on climate issues, and I'm saying this is not the case, indeed they may take negative action because she peddles simplistic solutions and can also be an irritant to some (e.g. me!).

 Matt Reed wrote:
Good on ya. You've expressed your opinion. You've singlehandedly dismissed her because of her age (not her fault) as well as the popularity she's achieved (also not her fault).


No Matt. I'm not "dismissing" her. You're falling into the same emotionalist trap that Trump supporters have fallen into - the cult of personality, and defending someone because of what you perceive them to be, and not the actual substance of what they're saying/doing.

A lot of people seem to love Greta because she's a 16-year old girl with good intentions, which somehow apparently makes her 1. completely correct in everything she says, and 2. totally invulnerable to/above criticism.

I'm a dissenter. I don't believe any 16 year old without suitable education and emotional maturity is appropriate to be a prominent global messenger for such an important issue. I've pointed out that at least some of what she's saying is simplistic, inaccurate nonsense (e.g. the economic impacts of climate change policy ARE a major concern, not to be brushed aside by an idealist's platitudes). Plus I doubt many of her supporters even know the issues, as opposed to just loving her.

I don't care if people see me as a horrible person who "hates little girls" etc. for pointing this out. Like you, I feel like I've suddenly been transported to Bizarro Earth, where people show disdain for actual experts, renowned thinkers and prominent scientists and achievers, and instead argue vehemently and passionately in support of false prophets whose only achievements are fame and familiarity with the masses.

Lastly, I wish people would stop saying "she doesn't want to be famous". Are you really that naive? Her parents are both show business personalities. She maintains an active Twitter account. She constantly appears on TV and makes pronouncements. If she is being forced into this role, then perhaps we need to condemn her guardians who are forcing it onto her, given she is still technically a minor?

TL;DR: This Non-Boomer Boomer wants a return to the days when we had people like David Attenborough telling us about the natural world and how best to preserve it, not some teenage high-school dropout.



Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 14 December 2019 at 10:06pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Lastly, I wish people would stop saying "she doesn't want to be famous". Are you really that naive? Her parents are both show business personalities. She maintains an active Twitter account. She constantly appears on TV and makes pronouncements. If she is being forced into this role, then perhaps we need to condemn her guardians who are forcing it onto her, given she is still technically a minor?

Conspiracy theory all over again. You really think because a swede 16 year old has show business-related parents and an active Twitter account that givers her an "edge" to getting the TIME Magazine Person of the Year? Or that it's all an elaborate ruse to get there? Talk about naive.

Why would you think she is being forced into "the role"? Like most conspiracy theorists, it really says more about you than the people you accuse.

The fact that she is 16 years old and has a pretty good idea about what's going on and why shouldn't be cause for dismissal. Actually, it makes a lot of sense because her generation is inheriting this planet and that's a media friendly narrative and therefore more interesting than interviewing yet another scientist that people are going to ignore. 

Those very same scientists seem to overwhelmingly support her because they also know this. There's no rational argument to be a Greta hater, except if you wanna get into Trump mentality. 

Next thing you know you'll be saying Malala shot herself in the face just to get famous.






Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 14 December 2019 at 10:38pm
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Rodrigo Castellanos wrote:
You really think because a swede 16 year old has show business-related parents and an active Twitter account that givers her an "edge" to getting the TIME Magazine Person of the Year?


Wow. To quote Ridley from Aliens: "Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"

No Rodigo, this all happened organically. Greta's become famous purely because she's an incredible people person who has an amazing intellect, the best and brightest of a generation, and this just happened to catch the attention of the right people in media. Her parents being in show business, having contacts, etc. cannot possibly factor into this. Using deductive reasoning based on known facts is equivalent to conspiracy theory stuff now?

Note: scientists don't support Greta because she's come up with anything new, they're not supporting her because she's a thought leader. They're supporting her because, in the crazy, topsy-turvy world we live in, you need to hitch your wagon to someone like Greta Thunberg just to be heard!

Next up: Justin Bieber will be giving a lecture on how we can combat disease in the third world, and ways of restructuring our financial system to better help poorer countries. Don't dismiss him because he has no relevant qualifications or maturity. Embrace the vacuous, for they shall inherit the Earth!


P.S - Don't for a second compare an over-privileged high-school dropout who becomes a "climate change activist" to yell simplistic platitudes at us with no risk and all reward, to someone who is shot in the face, recovers, and bravely publicly takes on people as vicious as the Taliban, all the while demonstrating her own intellect and speaking from direct personal experience.

Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 14 December 2019 at 11:56pm
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 1:44am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Koroush, I did not say ‘everyone’ had seen that image. I said it had changed people’s opinions on single use plastics.
If you think that is not the case, you really need to open your eyes.

In the U.K., plastic straws disappeared from pubs & food establishments overnight - literally.
Supermarkets are talking of banning plastic packaging for vegetables.

Look, this is literally my job. I have spent my entire career in resource efficiency & pollution control. I have personally trained teams in over 20 countries in how to work with companies to deliver resource efficiency, with those programmes saving millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide, diverting millions of tonnes of waste from landfill.

I know what I am talking about.

You are talking about opinion & what you think. Good on you. I’m not. I’m talking as someone who is, & I really do feel qualified to say this, an expert in the practical application of resource efficiency & the circular economy.

But the bottom line is - you are wrong.
Things are changing, the public’s perception & knowledge is changing.
Greta Thunberg is helping with that. You don’t agree, for various & nebulous reasons - age, fame, Lord knows what.
Keep those opinions, but recognise them for what they are - opinions.

Evidence suggests you are wrong.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 2:12am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Yeah, having an opera singer and an actor for parents (in Sweden) instantly grabs you all the attention and connections one might need to be TIME Magazine's Person of the Year. 

You'd be blind to not see the conspiracy. Also, following that reasoning Jaden Smith is Emperor of the Universe right now.




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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Right. I didn't know the importance of her family in Sweden, so that certainly didn't impact how I feel about her now.  Sorry, but to reduce my feelings to falling into an "emotionalist trap" is oh so wrong.  To do so only works to support your theory instead of examining it in an honest light.

Listen, I get it.  You don't like a 16 year old as the voice of climate change.  You reduce her to nothing because of her age and relative lack of experience.  You dismiss her outright because...well...I don't really know why.  You choose to see her bringing an issue to light for many who, before her, didn't give two shits about it as...a bad thing?  What?  And then to call her the left's answer to Donald Trump?  Seriously?

Wonder why you're getting so much pushback....
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 2:54am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Koorush Ghazi wrote:
Note: scientists don't support Greta because she's come up with anything new, they're not supporting her because she's a thought leader. They're supporting her because, in the crazy, topsy-turvy world we live in, you need to hitch your wagon to someone like Greta Thunberg just to be heard!

And that's a bad thing?  I'm sorry, but anything....LITERALLY ANYTHING...that gets people to see climate change as real is OK in my book.  If it gets even a single person on our side, that's totally fine.  That person may beget someone else and so on.  This is how these things work.  Why you insist upon saying what she is doing is a net negative is beyond me.  
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Greta is very much similar to Ellen McArthur. Ellen sailed around the world but had no background in Circular Economy but BOOM! Once she had sailed around the world she was able to set up her foundation & do incredible work in raising awareness & getting people on board. 

The only real negatives around Greta are the negatives brought by people who have issues with young people speaking their minds. To say she doesn’t know what she is talking about is incorrect. It’s not like she is saying climate change isn’t happening. It’s not like she is saying we have been doing enough to decrease the man made influences. 

You know, like some of the adults in the discussion have been saying. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Isn't Greta TRYING to become famous? Not for the sake of being famous, but for the nature of being heard and recognized to make her point. She's not hyping her singing or acting chops - I'm not even sure she can. But she IS working hard to be popular enough to be heard and trigger a response.

Having show biz parents don't necessarily make her famous.. But it might give her better insight on how to be famous. I think that may be her goal - be recognized enough to be heard.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It reminds me of the early days of AIDS. Most straight people didn’t worry much about the “Gay disease”. Then Rock Hudson was diagnosed, and suddenly AIDS had a face. Straight people started to care.

Greta gives a face to climate change.

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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 15 December 2019 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Ok, well this is the sort of nonsense that Greta gets up to:

Greta Thunberg in first-class Twitter spat with German rail firm

You guys decide whether this is getting attention to environmental issues, or to Greta Thunberg, all-star leftist icon.

/EDIT: In before "She can't help how the media covers her" - she can, by not tweeting silly misleading stuff. This isn't the first time either.

Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 15 December 2019 at 4:15pm
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