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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1652
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Posted: 12 December 2019 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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Ray Brady wrote:
In the case of Climate Change, publicity is indeed achievement. Making people aware that there is a problem and that action needs to be taken NOW to correct it is a critical first step. Ms. Thunberg is doing a far better job of that than any current US politician. |
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No Ray, publicity isn't achievement in climate change. Everyone is aware of climate change, nobody denies that the climate is changing. The debate is over WHY it's changing, and Greta is doing nothing to convince those who believe that it's God's will or nothing to do with mankind, etc.
In fact, I challenge you to name, off the top of your head, three policies that we need to enact to combat man-made climate change (no cheating and checking Google).
I'd wager most Thunberg supporters cannot, because most of Thunberg's support, indeed most media coverage of Thunberg, is about: Greta Thunberg & her antics. Not policies. Like Trump.
Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 12 December 2019 at 7:44pm
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5626
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Posted: 12 December 2019 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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If you don't know the policies she's promoting, it's not her fault. Remember, Greta didn't ask for the publicity. She became famous doing something she was already doing without the fame.
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2178
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Posted: 12 December 2019 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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Koroush>>In fact, I challenge you to name, off the top of your head, three policies that we need to enact to combat man-made climate change<<
That's just insulting. It's not like this hasn't been like a constant topic since the 70's.
Transition to carbon-neutral or non-carbon emissive technologies. Transition to renewable energy sources. Quit cutting down all the freaking trees.
If you wish, I can go into great detail on all of those topics. Off the top of my head.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4545
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Posted: 12 December 2019 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 4
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An adult man trash-talking a young girl worried about the future would be stupid enough... that man being president of the U.S. who is known to have a fake Time cover with a photo of himself on it framed and on his wall? Completely insane. George Orwell named his book at least 32 years too early.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1652
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 5
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Steven Myers wrote:
If you don't know the policies she's promoting, it's not her fault. Remember, Greta didn't ask for the publicity. She became famous doing something she was already doing without the fame. |
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I can imagine she's been forced to drop out of school and sit and yell "How Dare You!!" at the cameras. What with an opera singer for a mother and an actor for a father, this all happened organically...
Conrad Teeves wrote:
That's just insulting. It's not like this hasn't been like a constant topic since the 70's.... If you wish, I can go into great detail on all of those topics. |
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Great Conrad, I believe you. Was any of this due to Greta?
Rebecca Jansen wrote:
An adult man trash-talking a young girl worried about the future would be stupid enough... |
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Possibly equal as stupid as adult men and women following advice about the future from a 16 year old. There's a reason we don't allow people under 18 to vote or drive. Can you name it?
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2178
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 1:30am | IP Logged | 6
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Koroush>>Great Conrad, I believe you. Was any of this due to Greta?
In my case, no. But there are lots of people for whom just bringing up the topic in a way they can relate to emotionally is a valuable thing. She started discussions. Good. Popularization of science is more valuable now more than ever.
It is perfectly understandable for average people to be utterly consumed with the demands of just living--hard enough even without trying to master the intricacies of disciplines outside their own. Combine that with a mistrust of government (Watergate casts a long shadow), the appealing logical fallacy of arguing from ignorance, and stories which stimulate their imagination an we get the rise of Flat Earthers, etc.
I have occasion to have chats a kindly older gentleman (retired machinist) who being in the trades his whole life has no real background or special interest in science. From time to time he tries to convince me that Sasquatches are a thing, and that FDR had the Smithsonian destroy evidence of giants. He watches all these fringe conspiracy videos on YouTube and sends them to me with lurid topics like about them discovering the remains of tiny people(actual screencap below). Getting the public engaged with real science is important. It's exhausting refuting nonsense. It's very pleasant and even inspiring to see someone young bring some energy.
William Gibson notes on Twitter after someone suggested that Greta should be advised that she would "catch more flies with honey than vinegar":
"No flies on Greta. Her autism, her lack of "honey", is the result of a clinical inability to bullshit. Hence we, neurotypicals, hear a human voice of oracular clarity. Which terrifies and/or enrages some of us."
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1652
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 7
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These are the sorts of things Greta has been saying, which have little to do with spreading facts or science, and more to do with peddling simplistic emotional nonsense which appeals to the lowest common denominator, ala Trump:
QUOTE:
Some people say that I should study to become a climate scientist so that I can "solve the climate crisis." But the climate crisis has already been solved. We already have all the facts and solutions. |
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Really Greta? You already have all of the solutions to fixing man-made climate change? Do tell... also, nice dodge on the reasonable critique that you have no true knowledge of what you speak.
She's also basically said that economic concerns are irrelevant in the face of collapsing ecosystems. Which is a great idealistic notion if you're 16, but older, wiser heads know that if you ignore economic concerns, such as massive job losses and resulting social upheaval, then along comes a demagogue like Trump, appeals to this large disenfranchised group (e.g. miners and farmers), wins an election, and undoes everything you've been trying to achieve.
Again, this is why teenagers rarely make good policy analysts, politicians, indeed anything requiring deeper thought and mature, balanced, understanding.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14816
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 1:48am | IP Logged | 8
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Possibly equal as stupid as adult men and women following advice about the future from a 16 year old. There's a reason we don't allow people under 18 to vote or drive. Can you name it?
-----
OK Boomer.
We don't allow people under 18 to drive? That's not true in the US, and I don't think it's true in Australia either.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1652
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 9
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OK my bad, 16 is the minimum age in the US, it's 17 in Australia.
But for that thing that requires greater maturity, voting, what's the minimum age there Michael?
Also, I didn't realise it makes me a "Boomer" (I'm not, I was born in '71) to express concerns regarding the maturity of a 16 year old. But thanks for the name-calling :)
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14816
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 2:07am | IP Logged | 10
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Also, I didn't realise it makes me a "Boomer" (I'm not, I was born in '71) to express concerns regarding the maturity of a 16 year old. But thanks for the name-calling :)
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It's not really about being a baby boomer, and it's not name calling. It's checking the attitude of the generations that are largely responsible for creating the problems thinking they know better than and dismissing the younger generations who have to deal with the fallout.
You are not expressing concerns regarding the maturity of a 16 year old. You are dismissing her outright because of her age. Attack her arguments if you must, although I think that misses the point. She's creating dialogue and getting young people involved. The idea that she has to be responsible for dictating policy or convincing certain groups is ridiculous.
Also, age and wisdom my ass. It wasn't the Millennials and Gen-Xers who tipped the electorate to Trump.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7627
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 4:29am | IP Logged | 11
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The Greta Thunberg topic is not letting me post a reply, yet other posts are. So, I don't know if an admin can move this post but here is my reply to the posts dismissing Greta because she is young.:
There are many things that we 'know' but we just sort of accept them until one event or image occurs. And that one event or image captures the public's attention in a way that the years of messages have failed to do.
And things suddenly change.
The image of a whale with a large piece of plastic in its mouth totally changes, overnight, people's view on single use plastics.
And Greta Thunberg is one of those things. She has captured the attention of many people, her age and older, and manged to bring to the fore things that people already knew but (really) ignored.
I have a degree in environmental science I worked 15 years in the water industry I have worked the past 14 years in resource efficiency.
I have attended so many conferences, seminars on climate change, but it was always the same people, with the same message, preaching to the converted.
There is a difference here. Don't dismiss her just because she is young.
We were all young once, and yes, we often thought we maybe knew more than we did. It didn't invalidate what we DID know. It didn't invalidate any impact that we may have made at that time.
That we have failed to find a way to get this message into the public psyche in a manner that resonates into action while Greta has, is not a reason to dismiss her just because she is young. It is a cause for us to reflect on why we failed to achieve this for so many years and celebrate that at last it is happening.
Can't drive? Can't drink? Can get married. All irrelevant in this discussion
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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1929
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12
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Truth, my man.
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