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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 1
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In the end, this is like painting your living room, and insisting that makes you one of the builders of the house.
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2239
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 2
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That’s a perfect analogy.
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2239
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 3
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In a semi-amusing way, this discussion reminds me of times, over the years, when I have said I did not create Wolverine, but he IS my fault!
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I think it’s fair to say that subsequent creative teams create well-known storylines. Every time Days of Future Past is referenced or used in another medium, you are the creator of that story.
Heck, that story itself has become a character. |
Edited by Mark McKay on 05 December 2019 at 7:50am
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4811
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 4
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Just a few "re-imaginings" -
Patsy Walker --> Hellcat Robin --> Nightwing Jane Foster --> Valkyrie Henry Pym --> Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Wasp Sgt. Fury --> Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. Marvel Girl --> Phoenix Kid Flash --> Flash Carol Danvers --> Ms. Marvel, Binary, Captain Marvel Bill Foster --> Black Goliath, Giant-Man Him --> Adam Warlock Beast Boy --> Changling John Jameson -- Man-Wolf Bucky - Winter Soldier the Cat --> Tigra Jim Rhodes --> War Machine
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5064
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 5
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I never did understand why Marv Wolfman and George Perez got creator credit on Nightwing.
By that logic should they get credit for Wally West going from Kid Flash to The Flash?
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4811
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 6
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All being said, I am not a fan of identities being passed around (Iron Man, Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, etc.) like they're something you can pick up secondhand at Goodwill.
I'm also not a fan of taking perfectly-good supporting characters and turning them into super-heroes or villains unless there's a logic reason.
Like - Harry Osborn as Green Goblin, John Jameson as Man-Wolf, Jane Foster as Valkyrie, Bill Foster as Goliath
Dislike - Flash Thompson as Venom, Pepper Potts as Rescue, Rick Jones as A-Bomb, Thunderbolt Ross as Red Hulk
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Jason Larouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 515
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 7
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Fabian Nicieza and Joe Kelly deserve some kind of special credit for turning Cable and Deadpool into characters people like.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 8
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No.
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DW Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 June 2012 Posts: 444
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 9
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Harry Osborn holding his own against Spider-Man on any level?
Nah.
Don Z
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4811
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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If an old guy in a Vulture suit can, I don;t see why Harry Osborn, with access to his father's equipment and formulas can't.
It was certainly a better option than resurrecting Norman.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 11
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Moreso than Daredevil, Deadpool is the best argument in favor of what King is calling for. Fabian Nicieza & Rob Liefeld gave us a spear-carrier, a background zero in a title full of teeth-clenching zeroes, whose sole defining characteristic was that he was yet another intellectually bankrupt, creatively void, morally bereft Marvel rip-off of a DC property; Deadpool/Deathstroke; Wade Wilson/Slade Wilson (and we do know Rob was into the Wolfman/Perez Titans...)
Everything that defines the character to modern audiences came from Joe Kelly; the humor, the chaos, the fourth-wall breaks... I'm certain he wishes now he'd expended his energies on a character for which he'd be getting paid.
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Rodrigo castellanos Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1439
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Posted: 04 December 2019 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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It seems almost impossible to conceive a totally fair system for this.
But, taking in to consideration the movie/TV adaptations (where I assume the big bucks are) there's something going on here.
Daredevil, in all its interpretations in mass media, is basically Frank Miller's characters and storylines, not Lee and Everett's. If Frank Miller hadn't happened, these hugely profitable things would not exist.
Same goes for Deadpool, and to an extent the X-Men.
This has been "sorta" righted with Batman but as its well known, Kane's original "vision" is nothing like the character and world that's popular today thanks to the contributions of Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson.
But where do you draw the line? If this leads to Tom King being credited as co-creator of Batman of course it's absolutely ridiculous.
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