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Ernest Voyard
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 1 post reply


In Hamilton the characters are still “White”. Meaning, there isn’t a
suggestion (in the story) that any of them aren’t white people -
regardless of the actors playing them.

*******

Wait, what?

********

In the show, it isn’t suggested that Hamilton is a Latino, or black (actor
dependent) or that Lafayette is not a white Frenchman. The Schuylar
sisters are biological sisters despite being played by different races
(two black, one Asian in the version I saw). It’s all very much “theater”.
Where we can accept that a person of one color is not in fact portraying
that color. Much like we can accept that a person is on a boat sailing to
America even though there isn’t water.



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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

...we can accept that a person of one color is not in fact portraying that color. Much like we can accept that a person is on a boat sailing to America even though there isn’t water.

•••

False equivalency.

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Ernest Voyard
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

To me - and obviously mileage may vary- this is similar to a black or
Asian actor playing Hamlet or appearing in Les Mis. I know they aren’t
intended to be “black”. Doesn’t work for everyone or every part I
guess.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Since Tom Hanks is making a career of playing people he doesn’t look like, would it be acceptable for him to play Martin Luther King? After all, we know he’s “not intended to be White”.
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Ernest Voyard
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

If we were also working in a more equal world of opportunity for
minority performers and representation of American heroes that
minorities - Maybe (avoiding blackface and bad accents).

But we aren’t there yet. So part of this is where we are.




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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Where we are IS blackface, 21st century style. Instead of creating strong characters for minority actors, or mining their own history for real people who are deserving attention, we take White characters and race-swap them.

And for reasons I guess I will never understand, top rank actors like Samuel L. Jackson, Denzel Washington and, yes, Will Smith are not deeply offended by this.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I see HBO is producing a new PERRY MASON, set in 1932. This time, private investigator Paul Drake is Black. In the 30s.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

"Lynching: A Weapon of National Oppression," published in 1932.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

This is why I object so loudly when race-swapping “improves” the Past.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

This week’s episode of WATCHMEN is a very powerful voice showing what things were like back in the day & why logic goes out the window by simply making established white characters black.

People, the history is not one where you can simply take a white person & hey presto, swap to a black character. Making Nick Fury black fundamentally changes the history of what that character could have been.

That is not a racist statement, it is an acknowledgment of how bad things were. & it should be a rallying cry that things should never be that way, ever again.

Of course, the current issue is that people ARE answering the rallying cry of ‘make new characters’ & we now have (usually) white males shouting that they are having minorities & women characters thrust down their throats all the time.
See Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel’s revised line up (granted some of them are characters based on existing characters, but many are not & they still get included in the backlash) for some examples of this. The Mary Sue argument should not count here. I’m arguing that people say ‘Create new characters’, those characters get created & people complain. That these characters make everybody else look pathetic (in some people’s eyes) says more about the person complaining than anything else.

I think JB did an incredible study on this topic of black character now vs black character then with NEXT MEN. Tony in present day had opportunity & position.
Once time displaced to the past, she remained the same character, but her experience was far, far different.
I don’t think he gets enough credit for what he managed to show through that character’s experience in life, nor the decisions she made based on those experiences.
Many people complain that the ‘sequel’ series felt rushed etc, I don’t agree with that & think through things like Tony’s story it was every bit as compelling as the ‘original’ issues. It was horrible to see such a strong, able character go through those experiences. She remained a strong, able character in the past, but her choices and experiences were radically different. That was not on her, it was on how white people treated blacks, pure & simple, & remains a story that must not be forgotten by pretending you can take a privileged white character & simply make it a black character.

That is a lie & a disservice to all the blacks & other minorities that suffered terrible abuse in the past. This post also stands for women throughout history as well.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 26 November 2019 at 4:11am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

“Making Nick Fury black fundamentally changes the history of what that character could have been.”


Nick Fury in the MCU wasn’t a WW2 veteran.  He’s much younger than that.  He didn’t serve alongside Captain America during the war.  He didn’t lead the Howling Commandos.  He appears to have been born some time in the 60’s (probably in his early to mid 50’s as he is portrayed in the movies).  

In the MCU there is no reason Nick Fury could NOT be black.

Nick Fury in the MCU isn’t a ‘race swap’.  He’s a whole new character named ‘Nick Fury’.
  


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James Woodcock
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Posted: 26 November 2019 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Isn't that what I said?

Which came first? The character or the decision to make him black (rhetorical)? They fundamentally changed the history of that character BECAUSE they made him black.


Edited by James Woodcock on 26 November 2019 at 7:05am
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