Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 4 Next >>
Topic: Flat Earthers Again Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8030
Posted: 17 November 2019 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Nice!
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 17 November 2019 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Of all the things that annoy me about the “ancient aliens” crowd, top of the list must surely be the way the casually deny human imagination and ingenuity. Our ancestors were too stupid to build the Pyramids, Angkor Wat, or Stonehenge.

Feh!!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Constantly reporting on, to borrow from Aaron Sorkin, the "galactically stupid" may indeed help explain how some of our politicians got elected -- and keep getting re-elected.

****

The mainstream media that is now (rightfully) taking Trump to task on a regular basis is the same mainstream media that wouldn't stop reporting on him during the 2015-16 Republican presidential campaigns. A guy that rich hardly needs free press, but boy howdy did he get a ton of it. 

Most everyone at CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. who has been so very offended and scared by the Trump presidency really needs to look in their mirror and say "I'm partly responsible for this." 
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The mainstream media that is now (rightfully) taking Trump to task on a regular basis is the same mainstream media that wouldn't stop reporting on him during the 2015-16 Republican presidential campaigns. A guy that rich hardly needs free press, but boy howdy did he get a ton of it.

Most everyone at CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. who has been so very offended and scared by the Trump presidency really needs to look in their mirror and say "I'm partly responsible for this."

••

I don't recall any widespread POSITIVE press on Trump in the 2016 election. In fact, it was during that period that he began his campaign against "fake news" and declared the Free Press the "enemy of the people".

That legions of those people were still frightened and stupid enough to vote for him does not reflect badly upon the media.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

TANGENT: And I'll note that Trump declared the outcome of the 2016 election a fake even BEFORE he was elected. Me, I think we shoulda taken Trump at his word.

I believe that the matter is that these flat Earth believers cannot dissuade themselves, because it's a core belief. To deny this would be to deny what they "know" are facts - God created the heavens and earth, space flight is impossible, and if you go too far at sea, you will be chased by dragons until you fall off the edge.

It would destroy their world view, because they have never had the imagination to say, "What if?", and thus, would be shattered with a belief devastated and nothing to replace it. For years (decades), they've learned and had confirmed by others that the world is flat - it just CAN'T be round! It would break them.

I guess I have a tangent question - how many flat Earthers are atheists? I gotta guess VERY few...
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As (I think) Mark Twain said, it’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.

Scary part, they walk amongst us!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I don't recall any widespread POSITIVE press on Trump in the 2016 election. In fact, it was during that period that he began his campaign against "fake news" and declared the Free Press the "enemy of the people".

***

It was billions of dollars worth of free coverage. Trump getting so much press helped maintain his lead in the Republican presidential primaries. Other Republican candidates dropped out -- they weren't getting much news coverage. If you don't get the coverage, you can't get ahead in the polls. Undoubtedly some people who would've voted for a different Republican voted for Trump because they wanted to vote for the likely winner. It's called "the bandwagon effect."

The press could've just not covered Trump so damn much every damn day. Yes, there was a lot of condemnation by the mainstream media. Also a lot of "he can't possibly win the primary" and "he can't possibly win the general election." Oops.

And there were media idiots writing in December 2016 hoping that Trump would "grow into the presidency." Talk about stupid!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3139
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This is roundabout, but bear with me.

I'm emotionally in agreement on the idea that there really should be no press given to these people or their ideas.  I don't find Flat Earth ideas harmless, I find them genuinely corrosive - the type of ignorance or anti-science thinking that leads people to credulously share memes online saying that on a particular date, Mars will appear the same size as the full moon, or at the extreme end, anti-vaxxers.

But, intellectually, I know we have to keep a harsh light trained on them.

Back in the 1980s, when my uncle first started teaching at Oregon State University, one of the classes he taught was Holocaust Studies.  This - along with being a member of the small Jewish community - got him on the radar of the hate groups that were part of the Northwest.  Which led to ongoing harassment of him and his family, including in one memorable instance, a card celebrating Hitler's birthday.

For a long time, I thought that the best approach was to largely pretend these people didn't really represent much of a threat.  And all of my non-Jewish friends really didn't understand so attempts to discuss it probably seemed like paranoid whining on my part.  The press didn't really focus much on hate groups as part of the growing militia movement, and if it was mentioned, it was as an aside.

Welcome to 2019.  Clearly, that strategy has not worked.  These groups are now larger and more mainstreamed than ever, worming their way closer to the centers of power.

What flat-earthers and white supremacists have in common, beyond possessing staggering amounts of loathsome idiocy, is in their ability to spread their messages through back channels, growing in darkness like Bradbury's mushrooms.  The only way we're going to reduce or eliminate their threat is to ramp up the things that fight them: hate speech laws, stronger science education, what have you.  And by remaining ever-vigilant of their presence so that we can properly respond.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3139
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I should note as an aside, these groups actually have a lot of crossover. Most hardcore conspiracy hobbyists generally boil everything down to "the Jews did it."
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3826
Posted: 18 November 2019 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The Internet seemed like such a good idea at the time. All that information available instantly with just a click of your mouse. But it's become a haven of disinformation and agitation, to such a degree that it threatens the very fabric of democracy.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8030
Posted: 19 November 2019 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It's hard for me to agree, since I owe my career to the Internet* , but I'm going to have to. I'm sure that we would have had at least the last 2 Presidents be different people if it were not for the Internet.

*I went to college from '91-'95, and boy was there such a sea change in those 4 years!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Steve Coates
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 November 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
Posted: 19 November 2019 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

A friend often quotes his father's saying of "Rembember son, 50% of the people are below average".


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 4 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login