Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 7 Next >>
Topic: Bloomberg 2020 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3152
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Eric,

"Rich people suffer a lot more than middle class people" - where is your proof for this?

Marc
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ron Grant
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 December 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 143
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

 I don't hate a Zuckerberg or a Tom Brady or a Tom Hanks for their wealth; they worked hard to earn it
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
they earned it but worked hard to earn it ? I think a coal miner or someone who picks tomatoes works harder and earns far less .

 I don't hate a Zuckerberg or a Tom Brady or a Tom Hanks for their wealth but if there is a minimum wage maybe a wealth tax is a form of maximum wage.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3372
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Proof? Ain't got no proof - I've never been rich, and the rich people I know would be a little offended by such questions. But I've inferred some...

ITEM: We can handle taxes pretty easily. We work, they're taken out, and usually that's close enough to balance so that there's only a few bucks difference either way - maybe a couple hundred if we try to outwit the tax codes, maybe with our once a year accountant. Rich people have to address taxes constantly; they have to hire one or two experts, if they're not accountants, and they not only have their own; as employers, they have to account for employees as well.

ITEM: I hate to clean, you hate to clean, everybody hates to clean. Now, suppose you have two or three domiciles, two or three or four cars, a boat, a jet, a whole building. Those homes have to be livable constantly; those vehicles have to be maintained to perform at an instant's notice. Those buildings need janitorial services. And for all those people who wish they had a two story twenty-two room house... they probably haven't considered how many windows there are to clean!

ITEM: In this political season, you may've been contacted to make a donation. Maybe at Christmastime, Easter, and probably one or two email or snailmail requests a month. It's unlikely you friends and family are constantly at your door for money (well, your kids technically are at their own door, but I'm sure you follow.)

Now posit that not only are there likely dozens of charities and foundations looking for contributions - but A) these are GOOD causes. They're not spam-like, or phishing, or Nigerian princes. They're hospitals, universities, charities, and other legitimate causes. And B) because of tax laws, it is almost impossible NOT to donate money to lighten that tax load.

ITEM: Our world today is horrible. We send our children to school, university, or out into real life, without knowing if today is the day they may have to face a mugger, or a terrorist attack, or a disaster due to decrepit infrastructure.

Now multiply that by being rich and famous. How many kidnappers want your children for ransom? How many monsters are going to try to make a message by using YOUR children? How many bodyguards can be bought out and turn on you? If you were rich, you would worry about your children every second of every day, trying to make them secure - and never being sure that you've done enough.

We all have our burdens to bear, poor as well as middle class as well as rich - and nobody wants bad to happen to any of us, save for a few psychopaths. But being wealthy does not solve every single problem by any means.

That, at least is my conclusion.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13002
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I can't tell if Eric's post is satire or not.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Christopher Frost
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 October 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 371
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I think it is because if anyone really thinks that the problems of the rich are comparable to the problems of the poor, then they are *really* out of touch with reality. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 10 November 2019 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Does one need to be poor to understand “the problems of the poor”?
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5200
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Absolutely not JB, but there are certainly wealthy people who appear to have no understanding of the difficulties & struggles that poor people face.

The poster boy for this position in the U.K. @ the moment is an MP called Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Look up his latest gaffs & you will see the issues people have with privilege. I am convinced he thinks of us as lesser people who are his playthings
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5200
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I think the song ‘Common people’ by Pulp summed things up pretty well
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1575
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 2:18am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The resentment of the rich is largely due to jealousy, and will always be around. But there happens to be a very good reason to resent many wealthy people. The vast bulk of wealth is, to paraphrase Gordon Gekko from Wall Street, money from inheritances, interest on interest, and property and stock speculation.

In other words, most wealth is accumulating to people who are almost entirely unproductive in the economy. Trump is a classic example. Worse still, many of them are actually harming the economy by inflating prices through speculation, or abusing laws established in their favour - like generous bankruptcy and tax laws which see them paying literally no tax whatsoever

I don't care if a rich person is "out of touch", I care about the fact that those who accumulated wealth early, whether through chance or skill, are now snowballing their wealth at a rapid rate without contributing anything to society, in a system skewed in their favour.

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5200
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 3:36am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

In other words, most wealth is accumulating to people who are almost entirely unproductive in the economy. Trump is a classic example.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------
Trump is a pretty bad example of that (I cannot believe I have to defend him!!! Grrrrrr!)

He actually employs people in his empire - be that staff, construction workers etc. Now, does he use real money or pretend money? That's a different question. Does he treat others as human beings? Does he think that because he is rich, normal rules don't apply? All valid questions and discussion points and all relate to other uber rich people.

Jealousy is a trap when it comes to why people have problems with the rich. It's a lot more complex and nebulous than that.

For example, issues I have with specific individuals include:
Finding ways to not pay tax
(but even then, and this is a stark reminder of just what we mean by mega rich) the top 1% of tax payers in the UK account for 27% of the total income tax paid. So while I may well have issues with the amount they earn, and that they find ways to pay less, either legal or foul, they account for over a quarter of the revenue this country gets. That gives them enormous political and financial power. Much of their money comes from dividends and partnerships.

Taking money from companies to the detriment of the company
short term gain for the individual, disaster for the company - look at how many long established companies are going to the wall at the moment. Yes, there are complex reasons for this, but how many have included directors taking money from the account?
When the Galzer brothers bought Manchester united, THEY took out a loan to buy and own the company. They then transferred that loan to the company, putting the asset they just bought into massive debt - they personally no longer had the debt. How is that right? I don't care if it is established practice, it is a crazy practice.

Stealing money from pension pots
Abhorrent, just abhorrent

The whole lead up to the 2008 financial crash
Watch The Big Short and just weep

These are just some. I haven't got to the whole 'They think we are bugs' as exemplified by Jacob Rees-Mogg above, but that really does exist.

Jealousy isn't even in my list of issues I have with people having personal fortunes greater than entire countries.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1575
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 3:52am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It's not whether or not Trump employs others. It's the fact that what he mainly profits from isn't productive: gambling, real estate speculation, etc. These are all simply reallocation of wealth, not productive investment. In other words: what is someone like Trump doing to actually create value, rather than shuffle money around?
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5200
Posted: 11 November 2019 at 4:33am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I'll give you that Koroush. I have long argued that when the UK started to put its stock in service industry, it was not the best idea. After all, McDonalds doesn't pay enough to buy McDonalds everyday (not that you would want to but you catch my drift).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 7 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login