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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 02 December 2019 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Let's get back to the TV show, folks.

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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I didn't care much for the first couple of episodes of the show as I mentioned earlier in the this thread, but, I have to say, since episode three the show has become much watch TV for me. 
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

They are reporting that the viewer numbers are over 7 million an episode, which beats most network shows, so a renewal for a second season is likely.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Yeah, reviews are good and the ratings are good.

I swear I'm not being snarky here, but I really don't get it. 

I'm a huge WATCHMEN fan as has been established, but I'm past the stage of being offended by sequels or that kind of stuff. If the show's doing great, good for them, I'm not invested or wishing it tanked.

But as a WATCHMEN fan the show is almost incomprehensible to me and I truly can't find a valid reason for it to exist. Yet the viewers are there, and I'm pretty sure a good percentage of them haven't even read WATCHMEN. 

What brings them back? I just don't get it. But I've never liked LOST either and it did great so I guess I'm not Lindelof's target audience.




Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 07 December 2019 at 2:45am
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 2:02am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

We get that Rodrigo, so why do you keep coming back to this thread?

To just keep telling us you donít like it?

I like it because I think it is doing something new that builds on the end of the series. I also think it is being very bold in how it is tackling race relation issues.

You donít get that. Great.

As an example of what I mean - I donít like sports. Iím not watching The Irishman as I donít like the subject matter.
I ignore those threads.


Edited by James Woodcock on 07 December 2019 at 2:03am
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 2:42am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Easy, James.

Not looking for a flamewar (we've got enough of that already), but just as you can express how much you like the show, I'm allowed to express the opposite.

And I've acknowledged that the show is a success. I personally don't like it, but will watch it to the end because I'm a WATCHMEN fan and can't resist, even if it's only because of morbid curiosity.

And even though I don't like it, I'm interested in discussing it. If you'd prefer that the thread was all positive opinions, and if not don't post at all I'm sorry but it's not my thing (exactly like most Marvel movies threads are negative around here for some little detail you guys don't like).

If we all agreed on everything and only posted "brilliant", "revolutionary", "bold", it would be quite boring.




 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Also not looking for a flame war. (Although I must admit I thought the Marvel threads tended to be pretty positive with comments/discussions about where issues pop up. Iím in the positive camp in those as well)

But it just seemed to be that whenever a positive comment was made here, we get an ĎI donít like it. I donít get ití comment with little added to what was said before. 

Iím not the mod here, & Iím not trying to be a mod, I just find banging my head against a brick wall painful, so I tend to stop watching things that I donít like. & I certainly tend to avoid just posting repeat posts of ĎI Donít likeí
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I personally don't like it, but will watch it to the end because I'm a WATCHMEN fan and can't resist, even if it's only because of morbid curiosity.

óó-

There is so much content right now that there isnít enough time for me to watch the things I do like. I genuinely donít understand watching something I donít like. Seems like a waste of time. 
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


Rodrigo C: "If we all agreed on everything and only posted
`brilliant,' 'revolutionary,' 'bold,' it would be quite
boring."

****

The notion that a negative comment is somehow more
interesting than a positive comment is deeply flawed.
While informed insight can be critical, amateur reviewers
often lean on hatchet jobs to appear dismissively above the
material.

Constantly ripping on the TV show without any real insight
is the very definition of boring to me, so I see where
James is coming from. I don't think the film nor the
recent comic books captured the tone of the source material
better than the TV show, which has extrapolated the
original book in ways that fit perfectly in my eyes.

Because this doesn't have Moore's involvement but does have
Lindeloff's baggage, some people will never get into it. I
like the book best, and this knocked my socks off. It's
genius how they portray Hooded Justice, which basically
defines the entire series and allows it to explore race in
America in a brutally honest way. It's so brave and well
done that it fits into the existing material while being
accessible to an audience not familiar with the original.
The fact that it is set in modern times as its primary
world and gives very effective flashbacks for reference
provides an easy entry point for the uninitiated, but it's
the excellent writing that makes the show popular.

I think one of the things that makes it acceptable to
interpret a modern day extension of Moore and Gibbons' work
is that the original book is alrready a pastiche of
existing characters. The original series can be seen as a
comment on published heroes at best and plagiarism at
worst. So it's not a precious book and cast by any means,
and as a result I really enjoyed the first wave of books DC
did to expand the universe with BEFORE WATCHMEN.

This series is even better. As Emily Nussbaum noted in her
New Yorker review, the series' opening sequence at the
Tulsa Race Massacre "... pulls to the surface themes of
racial violence that never appear directly in Moore's
graphic novel, although they seethe at the margins, coded
in Reagan-era fear of urban chaos. It's not necessary to
read the source material in order to 'get' the show, but it
wouldn't hurt."

I agree wholeheartedly with Nussbaum, although she
annoyingly credits just Moore with the work, not noting
Dave Gibbons contribution to original book. I am glad to
see Gibbons is working on the show - I'm interested to see
what his contribution has been.

I would like to recommend reading Nussbaum's review in its
unboring entirety here:

The Incendiary Aims of
HBO's WATCHMEN


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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

There is so much content right now that there isnít enough time for me to watch the things I do like. I genuinely donít understand watching something I donít like. Seems like a waste of time. 

There are so many comments in so many threads and in so much social media right now that there isn't enough time to reply to all the ones I do like. I genuinely don't understand responding to the ones I don't like just to say I don't like them. Seems like a waste of time.


Interesting read. But it celebrates that the WATCHMEN TV show isn't about the major themes of WATCHMEN. This is mainly the part I don't get. Lindelof could've done his race relations allegory with his own characters much easily, why call it WATCHMEN? 

This forum's commentariat is mostly pretty big on fidelity to the source material. Ozymandias is not British. Laurie Juspeczyk is nothing like the character we see in the show. Hooded Justice is not black. And the justification of the "white" makeup around his eyes because that's the way we see, without a doubt, that he is white in WATCHMEN is beyond ridiculous (just use some goggles, dude). And the catapult, the clones, and so on an so on.

But making Spider-Man have organic webshooters? SACRILEGE!

I just find it funny.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply


 QUOTE:
There are so many comments in so many threads and in so much social media right now that there isn't enough time to reply to all the ones I do like. I genuinely don't understand responding to the ones I don't like just to say I don't like them. Seems like a waste of time.

Hmm... I do like this thread and it took me a minute to read and reply to your post. My time spent on this thread would be drastically reduce if I didnít have to filter through the noise. Iím all for reading interesting criticism and complaints of the show, but hate-watch commentary ainít it. Nice try though. 


 QUOTE:
This forum's commentariat is mostly pretty big on fidelity to the source material.

Well no. There are members who are pretty big on fidelity to the source material. There are other members who hold some things sacrosanct while considering other things window dressing. But there are plenty members here who enjoy the MCU movies and CW shows with all the changes, and your attempt to claim that people are being hypocritical for not being critical of all the changes in WATCHMEN rings false. The people I see here watching the show are the same ones OK with the MCU and the Arrowverse to varying degrees, so I am unclear what you find funny?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Interesting read. But it celebrates that the WATCHMEN TV show isn't about the major themes of WATCHMEN. This is mainly the part I don't get. Lindelof could've done his race relations allegory with his own characters much easily, why call it WATCHMEN?  

óó-

The show touches on the same themes of identity, power, lies, and violence that the book does. The big shift is from nuclear war being the existential threat to America to White Supremacy being the existential threat to America. Which is an appropriate and relevant modernization from the 1980s to the 2010s.
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