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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Watchmen has achieved some mythic status that to touch it is sacrilege.

Hrrmm... this is evidently not true. And if you're referring to an imaginary horde of Alan Moore rabid fans stopping the film studios and DC from doing bad versions of WATCHMEN that's also not happening. In my experience on comics forums and the like these versions seemed to be well received by the majority of fans. Most comic creators jumped at the chance to do BEFORE WATCHMEN, despite some serious ethical issues. Even Dave Gibbons jumped ship. The Alan Moore corner is a lonely one. 

Why does he get a pass when others are not allowed to play in his sandbox? 

Again, who are we referring to here? Everyone and their mother is allowed to play in his sandbox.

I'm impressed by how many writers have set out to prove Alan Moore isn't so great and put him in his place by producing shitty sequels. Uh, great work, guys. Way to knock him down to earth.

This was kinda my point. At his point, the few fans that cared or didn't want sequels, etc. just don't care anymore. So that's not an issue, but what I do find funny is how willing these creators are to embarrass themselves.

The irony being that the "Let's bring Alan Moore down with the rest of us" mentality (that I remember listening variations of from Straczynski, Darwyn Cooke and Lindelof himself) only elevates him even more.


 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I see a lot, a lot, of posts from people who do not think Watchmen should be touched. That it has sequels does not change that. 
I am not talking about creators, I am talking about some fans & some sites that seem to have the opinion that it should not be touched, while defending Moore & his stories that play in other peopleís sandboxes. 

& that those fans seem to think the drive for other creators to want to Erie stories is to try to show Moore how to do it right is a strange one. No one says that about anyone else writing follow on stories to other comics. 

I just find the whole thing odd
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

3 episodes in and canít say Iím a fan of the glacial pacing. While Iím still intrigued as to where this is going - and Jeremy Irons is a joy - Iím not convinced stealing a classic line here and there, aping some issuesĎ formats and sprinkling a few squid on top is enough. Iím torn, I admit. When Itís good, itís really good, but when itís not...

And seriously... no one can finish a sentence without swearing and Laurie misses Doc Manhattan so much she carries a GIANT blue dildo???!!? What?? Is this what passes for Ďmatureí entertainment these days? 
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David Miller
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


 QUOTE:
I see a lot, a lot, of posts from people who do not think Watchmen should be touched. That it has sequels does not change that. I am not talking about creators, I am talking about some fans 

& some sites that seem to have the opinion that it should not be touched, while defending Moore & his stories that play in other peopleís sandboxes. & that those fans seem to think the drive for other creators to want to Erie stories is to try to show Moore how to do it right is a strange one. No one says that about anyone else writing follow on stories to other comics.

I just find the whole thing odd

Part of the the problem is a sequel to WATCHMEN is a knockoff of a knockoff. I think very highly of the storytelling and characterization, but the characters' personalities are highly specific to the story being told and have very little resonance or necessity outside it. 

I remember at age 13 hoping for a sequel about the some of the stories that were alluded to, such as the first Comedian-Ozymandias fight, but a potential Dr. Manhattan-Superman fracas didn't occur to me at all. After all, that's what Captain Atom was there for. What's the point of having Nite-Owl join the Justice League? It already has Batman, Blue Beetle, and has probably added a few more Batman knockoffs since I last paid attention.  

I think the best anyone has managed was Grant Morrison's Multiversity one-shot, which wrote the Charlton characters as a Watchmen pastiche. I barely remember the Before Watchmen, but I recall one of them told the origin of Rorschach's the-end-is-nigh sign, which I think neatly encapsulated both the storytelling potential and the talent at work in those sad projects. 
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

And seriously... no one can finish a sentence without swearing and Laurie misses Doc Manhattan so much she carries a GIANT blue dildo???!!? What?? Is this what passes for Ďmatureí entertainment these days

Apparently so. I just bursted out laughing at that scene because I'm watching the show as it were a comedy. But I bet the writers think they're being edgy. Sad, really.

Part of the the problem is a sequel to WATCHMEN is a knockoff of a knockoff. 

Agree. That's why introducing them in the mainstream DC Universe is beyond ridiculous, even more so than the prequels and sequels. It's apparently gonna end in a Superman - Dr. Manhattan punch-out. Again, sad. 

But it reflects badly on today's creators and comic market, not on WATCHMEN. As I've said before, it generates the opposite effect on me: I go "wow, WATCHMEN was even more great than I remembered, compared to this crap".

On the sequels/prequels thing, it's not about WATCHMEN fans being precious about it and demanding it not to be touched. Those days are long gone anyway.

But this sentiment doesn't come from thinking WATCHMEN is "so good" it shouldn't be touched, it comes from WATCHMEN being a complete story.

Moore and Gibbons give you everything you need to know and more in those 12 issues. Every time I read it I find something new I hadn't noticed. The prequels, the sequels, it's all already there. If after reading WATCHMEN you think "gee... I wonder what happens next" or "what would Rorschach's adventures as a young vigilante be like?" you're not really getting it.









Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 05 November 2019 at 6:19pm
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David Miller
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I forget which Before Watchmen creator said it, but I thought the defensible reason to take on the project was the challenge of following up such a mythically beloved and formally excellent comic. Yet not a single creator involved appeared to even attempt to rise to the challenge. The artwork was as good the artists were capable of, and so was the writing I suppose, and there were numerous swipes, or homages if we're generous. But there was none of the precision, care or detail Moore and Gibbons brought to the original, and what set it apart in its day. I mean, it's called Watchmen, for fuck's sake. (The show is guilty as well -- what Christopher Nolan did with Dunkirk would have been an appropriate storytelling choice, but formally it's a basic Wire-paced HBO drama.) 

I've only read the first issue of Doomsday Clock, plus the recently publicized pages, but what about Jon Osterman suggests he would get into a fistfight with Superman?
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"GIANT blue dildo"
When i saw that, i just thought she`d need a super power
to accomodate it.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 06 November 2019 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I've only read the first issue of Doomsday Clock, plus the recently publicized pages, but what about Jon Osterman suggests he would get into a fistfight with Superman?

Nothing, and I hope he doesn't but I've read enough comics to know that's what they're trying to tease.


(The show is guilty as well -- what Christopher Nolan did with Dunkirk would have been an appropriate storytelling choice, but formally it's a basic Wire-paced HBO drama.) 

I don't know exactly what you meant there but THE WIRE is a much, much better show than this one.



Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 06 November 2019 at 9:03am
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 06 November 2019 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 9 post reply


I think this show is excellent and building on the original
book in a really smart way. It's dealin with current
issues of race and violence head-on.

And that last episode with Silk Spectre was near perfect.

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 06 November 2019 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The show keeps popping up in conversation, but I've come to realise that WATCHMEN is not my bag. Not the original comics, not the movie and not this series. 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 06 November 2019 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I agree with Tim
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2019 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Surfed into the third episode last night, and hung around just for Jean Smart. Found it overall to be well made and well played, tho some of the references were a bit too cute. I take it this is a "sequel" to the comic, not the movie?

Nothing really here to bring me back next week.

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