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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 29 October 2019 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I think the original shouldn't be touched in the same way I think CITIZEN KANE or THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA shouldn't have prequels or sequels.

But, as I've said, I've grown numb after the numerous "touchings" in recent years so I'm judging the show on how bad it is compared to the other stuff that's been made.

And I find this to be a different, often hilarious, kind of bad. Snyder's take was very shallow and dumb, the comics prequels and sequels shameless cash grabs with no soul and this... well, what I've said above.

The fact is, regardless of your personal appreciation for it or its influence or how you feel about Alan Moore in general, that WATCHMEN is a tremendously hard act to follow. Almost impossible, by design.

So if you have the hubris to attempt it, get ready for the backlash. Not that it's happening in the TV world, it's getting mostly great reviews, but I predict it's gonna age badly. Unlike the original, it's trying so hard to be "2019 woke" that it's instantly dated.



 
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 31 October 2019 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

SPOILERS

The police chief is found lynched, with a kindly old paraplegic claiming to be the murderer. He claims the chief is part of a conspiracy. And then we learn there is a Klansman robe in the chief's closet. This reminds me of the bottomless, and ultimately pointless mysteries of LOST. As a disappointed former fan of that previous Lindelof show, I'm not going down that road again. 


Edited by Joe Zhang on 31 October 2019 at 4:45pm
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 01 November 2019 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I've watched the first two episodes and have to say I'm really not a fan. I will give it another episode or two to see if it gets any better, but judging on those first two episodes, I would say Doomsday Clock, while far from perfect, is a much better story using some of the Watchmen characters. Neither thing though really seems necessary or even needed to be made, but at least there are things I've enjoyed about Doomsday Clock, especially Gary Frank's art. And while Rorschach was nothing even close to a hero in Watchmen, he was a raving psychopath with a strong moral code, the fact they patterned a group of white supremacists after him really annoys the crap out of me.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 02 November 2019 at 2:26am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

(...) the fact they patterned a group of white supremacists after him really annoys the crap out of me.

Agree. It disrespects the character by projecting the author's (in this case Lindelof's) view over the original. Many things could be said about Rorschach but he was definitely not a white supremacist. But in this show that's trying to be so "2019 woke" as I've said they take the easy route and make connections that aren't there. Rorschach is a bit of a right wing conspiracy nut, so are a lot of Trump voters and some of them are also white supremacists, so in their logic Rorschach's followers must probably be white supremacists also.

I found this Moore quote recently about how he wanted to approach the character and I think it shows he respected Ditko's original much more although his political views were completely different from his.






Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 02 November 2019 at 2:45am
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Carlos Velasco
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Posted: 02 November 2019 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Thanks for your message once more, Rodrigo.

None of the elements that make Watchmen great (the art, the realistic approach to super heroes, the pirates comic within the comic, the multiple newspapers and book fragments, the fascination and moral ambiguity with some main characters such as Rorschach and Ozymandias, the homage to the classic heroes without actually using them...) appear to be present in this series. I honestly don't like it that they had to name the series Watchmen.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 03 November 2019 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Carlos, to address your list of things not present in the series:
the art (There is art, but did you want a cartoon?)
the realistic approach to super heroes (what do you mean by this? The masked characters seem to get hurt in fights)
the pirates comic within the comic (might be a bit confusing in a TV show)
the multiple newspapers and book fragments (these are certainly in the series - they even appear to have a magazine stall being set up)
the fascination and moral ambiguity with some main characters such as Rorschach and Ozymandias (Up thread someone is complaining about the head cop being revealed to potentially be a member of the KKK and saying that is cliche. Which way do people want them to go?)

I see a lot of people finding things to complain about with this series - if it's black, they complain they wanted it white, if it is white, they wanted it black.

Ah, Alan Moore, the untouchable
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 03 November 2019 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Nope, I didn't complain about the KKK secret being a cliche at all. I'm complaining that this Watchmen is already starting to feel like LOST, which held great promise, but turned out to be written by a bunch of guys making it up as they strung us along. They had no idea what story they were trying to tell. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 03 November 2019 at 6:36pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 04 November 2019 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Ah, Alan Moore, the untouchable

Haha, oh come on. He has to be the most "touchable" comics author after Stan Lee. Almost everything he wrote has been adapted in some horrible way, or used as a base for terrible sequels and prequels and a few dreadful event comics like Blackest Night or Doomsday Clock (Geoff Johns... obsessed much?). 

But it's not about protective fanboys like myself, we're over it. The thing is you can't really "do" Alan Moore, and you will make a fool of yourself if you try. Grant Morrison tried to do it almost his entire career, it's just funny now (Remember when he said PAX AMERICANA was going to be like WATCHMEN but "done right"? Remember PAX AMERICANA?)

Back to the show, well episode 3 happened. Laurie showed up and it's hilarious, Lindelof indeed has a special talent. Two characters from the original so far, two incredibly gross mischaracterizations.

Thinking mostly about the HBO executives that greenlit this thing. If you're a WATCHMEN fan I'm betting you're not gonna like it. If you're not a WATCHMEN fan you're not going to understand anything about what's going on and why. Even being a WATCHMEN fan the show's vague and hard to follow, maybe that's just the "Lindelof style". 

Who is this show for, then? Why does it exist?

 


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Brian Miller
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Posted: 04 November 2019 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I didnít think this show was gonna be a straight up adaptation of the comics. 
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David Miller
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Posted: 04 November 2019 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'm impressed by how many writers have set out to prove Alan Moore isn't so great and put him in his place by producing shitty sequels. Uh, great work, guys. Way to knock him down to earth.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 3:56am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

More than any other comic writer, Alan Moore seems to illicit the response from readers that his stories should not receive sequels or follow on stories. That to do so is seen as a writer attempting to say they are better than he is.

Can someone please explain this to me? Why does it appear to be just Moore that illicits this response?

At the end of the day, he was writing comics. Comics are a medium where a writer writes stories and then another writer continues to write about those characters. Some follow on writers are good, some not so good. I'm not sure every writer sets out to say 'I'll show you how it should be done'.

Some just want to play in the same sandbox.

Watchmen has achieved some mythic status that to touch it is sacrilege. It is a 12 issue mini-series that was conceived for the Charlton heroes, using a lot of tropes that already existed, stealing whole scenes from previously written stories (the one I tend to quote is the lifting of the end of Mad Max for Rorschach's origin). It ended on a scene that invited people to think about what happens next - will Rorschach's journal be published and bring it all down like a house of cards? Will Veidt achieve word peace?

That Doomsday Clock and now the TV show have taken vastly different routes shows the flexibility of that ending - which I see as a good thing.

Moore himself takes existing stories (many with definitive ends) and plays in their sandbox, yet no one seems to mind (well, except GOSH who complained about using child characters in graphic sex scenes, but he got to ignore their wishes and published anyway). Why does he get a pass when others are not allowed to play in his sandbox? Whether they are good or bad is irrelevant, it is that people get upset that someone dared to play in the box in the first place that I find odd.

I say all this as someone who has followed Moore, and enjoyed his work, all the way back to 200 AD, Night Raven, Captain Britain, Marvelman, Doctor Who back up stories, let alone his American comics work. I think he is one of the best comic writers and has written some of the best comic stories ever written, I just don't get this 'Don't touch his stuff' mentality.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

If we don`t like what a writer does with a property, we
can choose to ignore those stories, nobody is forcing us
to buy/watch those stories. It may be better for our
health if we do this more often!
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