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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 17 September 2019 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 1
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Oh, my analysis is FAR from “optimistic”!
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Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 605
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| Posted: 17 September 2019 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think comics these days manage to combine a shortage of words with being talky. You get books where literally half the pages have no words at all, and other pages have back-and-forth dialogues crammed into single panels.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1646
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| Posted: 17 September 2019 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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Stéphane Garrelie wrote:
| I'ld rather say that the editors and writers suppose that the public doesn't read much books anymore, and try to make the comics as effortless to read as a tvshow or an action blockbuster are to watch. |
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That was my take on it too, except I'd suggest they're emulating movies more because they think movies are cool and comics are not, and/or movies are where they really want to work, and comics is their way of preparing.
I don't find the new look effortless at all, because modern artists tend to draw characters as though they're stuck in "action poses", which actually needs more words to describe what's going on.
I posted a page from FF#243 that I think is my happy middle ground. Take the words away, the action is still apparent. Add the words, and it makes it even better.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 17 September 2019 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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I’ll note too, from my writer’s perspective, that those two JOHN CARTER pages are an odd choice to illustrate this point. The first is a “conversation”, the second is a fight scene.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 17 September 2019 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 5
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Comics with copious dialogue are fine by me as long as the dialogue has verisimilitude. If my reaction is "no, people simply don't talk like this, ever," I stop reading.
Case in point...well, his initials are "BMB."
And to be honest, old X-MEN comics with Chris Claremont writing all the dialogue often make me wince. I understand that the "conventions" were different back then. But it's not just that Claremont (like Roy Thomas in his earliest Marvel writings) seemed to think that he was being paid by the word. Every time Colossus yells "By the White Wolf!" I shake my head.
It's not the same as "It's Clobberin' Time!" or "Hulk smash!!" or even "Oh my stars and garters!" It just isn't. It's an American's foolish idea of something a Russian would say.
This is another reason why I wish JB had stayed on X-MEN and Claremont had gone off to write some other Marvel title.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 6
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This is another reason why I wish JB had stayed on X-MEN and Claremont had gone off to write some other Marvel title.•• At the time, not an option. What I considered Chris' excesses--including scripting scenes and characters so far from what I intended--had so soured me on the characters I wanted nothing more to do with them. It was years before I would even consider doing X-Men convention sketches. Thirty nine years later, tho.....
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8349
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 7
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The reason there are less words is because Brian Michael Bendis and Chris Claremont have already used up too much of the industry's allowed allotment.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 8
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Very funny, Brian.
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Jonathan A. Dowdell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 9
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I think Brian is right (by being funny). When I read current comics (in collected editions from the library) I find them to be wordy. I think writers write and when you have writers like Bendis or Hickman or Snyder they write talky books. When I think back to early Marvel I feel like you had two fights an issue and some talking/exposition between the fights.
Also, books are written differently now because they are not tied down to explaining what happened last issue -- that could lead to less text? And no thought balloons may also change the way writers write? Of course, my analysis is not scientific in any way...
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 4369
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 10
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Chuck Dixon uses the guideline that a super hero/action comic should have three action sequences per issue - not necessarily all out wars, mind you, but three different scenes of action/motion.
I tend to agree.
I think there's probably too much banter in newer comics, I'd rather there was less cute dialogue and more captions that dig into the depth and themes of the characters and stories.
Too many writers seem to want comics to be movies, but the strength of the medium is that you can BOTH read and 'watch' a story. At least, to me.
I will say, mostly reading non-super hero books, the balance feels better overall in the books I read.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 18 September 2019 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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Writing expository dialogue that isn't awkward strikes me as very tough to do. Lots of writers in "the old days" did it and, in retrospect, it reads as "corny." But JB is good at it. (I think of the "Host" two-part story in SUPERMAN where Clark wakes up, all groggy, and tries to remember what happened yesterday, with all the exposition in thought balloons -- neat trick.)
James Williamson is doing a good job of it in THE FLASH, and Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV are doing their best in JUSTICE LEAGUE.
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