Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 18 Next >>
Topic: Et tu, Moira!? Or...what makes a mutant - SPOILERS Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1938
Posted: 12 August 2019 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Claremont had Betsy Braddock die and reincarnate in the body of a Japanese ninja. And she somehow picked up the personality and skills of the ninja as well.

__________________________


Actually, that's not entirely correct. In the original story she was found by the Hand after she went through the Siege Perilous and came out with amnesia. The Hand then contacted Spiral who (with he help of The Hand) used magic and science to alter her appearance so that she looked Eurasian (half Chinese and half British to be more specific) and gave her false memories and martial arts skills so that she could the perfect assassin for the Mandarin (hence why she was called "Lady Mandarin"). In an interview Claremont said that the in story reason for Psylocke's mystical race change was that the Mandarin and The Hand did not want their new brainwashed super assassin to be a white woman, since either they or the Mandarin now had a "no non Asians working for them" policy. The whole body swap ninja thing was a retcon made by Fabian Niceiza.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12162
Posted: 12 August 2019 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

OK, thanks. I am reminded why I stopped reading X-Men thirty years ago. 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116504
Posted: 12 August 2019 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I’m searching for uniquely mutant storylines in all that!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1175
Posted: 12 August 2019 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I've heard that Betsy Braddock is finally back to her original self now. Only took...30 years?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1175
Posted: 12 August 2019 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Excellent points - but as this has quickly turned into a "Hickman Apologetics" thread don't expect a satisfactory answer.

***

Well, my position -- I think Hickman has come up with a great idea for a character, but that character shouldn't be Moira MacTaggart.

Some characters connected to the X-Men should just be normal, non-mutant humans. 

And for what it's worth I heard a lot about Hickman for the last few years but I'd never read him before HOUSE OF X #1. I just wanted to see what this "new take" on the X-Men was. And...now I've seen it.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2750
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I think current writers can't help themselves when it comes to having normal human supporting cast members not staying normal. Flash Thompson as Venom, Pepper Potts as Rescue, Rhodey couldn't just be a former Iron Man anymore and had to get his own armor, Stevie Hunter became a member of Congress, Liz Allen runs her own corporation, Richard Ryder's younger brother became a member of the Nova Corps. In The case of Liz and Stevie, those are plausible roles to move into but it takes away from the "World Outside Your Window"* feel that the Marvel Universe is supposed to give us.


*Granted that ship sailed a long time ago.


Edited by Shawn Kane on 13 August 2019 at 5:55am
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116504
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

One of the things I used to grumble at Chris about was his inability to allow any character to be "normal". Moira, introduced as a potential girlfriend for Banshee, quickly turned into one of Xavier's former lab partners* with her very own super secret mutant research base.

Scott's dad became a space pirate. (A SPACE PIRATE!!) Storm turned into Modesty Blaise. Kitty got introduced as a "genius" (not my intent). Betsy and Amanda became witches. Illyana an interdimensional warrior.** Etc, etc.

__________________

* Karl Lykos, Moira, Magneto, Xavier himself... That lab got crowded during the Chris Years!

** Even Peter's unseen brother was a (dead) cosmonaut!

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116504
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

In her very first appearance, newly hired housekeeper Moira grabbed an AK-47 and began blasting at attacking (non-mutant) demons. Instantly this made her the ultimate manifestation of the tougher-than-the-men "Claremont Woman"--and pretty much a joke around the office. Many eyes rolled. Jo Duffy, who had coined the term "Claremont Woman" for something that seemed like a good thing, bemoaned the fact that Chris' laudable efforts to write strong female characters had turned into a predictable cliche.

As noted, Moira was created to be a boyfriend for Banshee, but having presented this weaponized version of her, Chris went forward as if that was always the plan. At least, that was how it seemed from the outside looking in.

Now, I guess, we have to wonder why she didn't warn the X-Men that those demons had been unleashed.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3609
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm in total agreement with missing out by not allowing supporting characters to just exist as normal human beings, but time travel events in a book with the X-Men feels too much like someone is trying to one up "Days of Future Past" to me.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6410
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I think that Marvel/Disney forgot to send the memo to all X-Writers to stop trashing the X-Men books now that they have the movie right back.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Juan Gomez
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2019
Posts: 25
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I do think there is something to be said in favor of allowing normal people to exist as regular supporting characters in comics.

Or, for that matter, even as protagonists. Which is part of why that famous Ross-Busiek collaboration, Marvels, was such a powerful tale. It's also remained one of the key strengths behind the later success of the Ross-Anderson-Busiek Astro City universe. In my opinion, much of that particular series continued to capture the "world outside your window" feel of ages past in a way that relatively few mainstream superhero comics seem to be attempting these days. 

I can totally get that. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy something else from time to time since, in any case, I am not reading much from modern Marvel or DC at this time...and I am definitely a fan of big sweeping sci-fi stories (it seems the reincarnation aspect isn't really supposed to be the main angle here, for whatever that's worth).


Edited by Juan Gomez on 13 August 2019 at 2:05pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116504
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

“When everybody is super, nobody is.”
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 18 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login