| Author |
|
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
|
| Posted: 11 August 2019 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
Well, if a male to female trans person has their
genitalia surgically altered and takes female hormones
etc, it doesn`t alter their muscular physiology, which
in the case of athletes, is where the claims of unfair
advantages come from. Personally, i have no problem with
trans people, but they need to use a bit of common sense
when dealing with situations like those mentioned in
this topic.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 2:38am | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
Is it transphobia or science if a person does not see or think of a transwoman or transman as being "real" women or men?
——
Well, it’s definitely not science.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
…i have no problem with trans people…•• We won't really get anywhere with this until we accept the idea that there's no "problem" to be had.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
Well, it’s definitely not science.
_________________________
A friend of mine also said that it was transphobic. My problem with that is that if a straight person refuses to date a transperson because they don't see said person as being the gender/sex that they transitioned to, that they will now be labeled as being transphobic. Also, transpeople having their genitalia surgically altered and taking hormones doesn't change their chromosomes that determine whether a person is male or female.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
QUOTE:
| My problem with that is that if a straight person refuses to date a transperson because they don't see said person as being the gender/sex that they transitioned to, that they will now be labeled as being transphobic. |
|
|
No one is advocating people being forced to date people they aren't attracted to. There are people who won't date someone of another race. Is that racist? Maybe? Maybe not? The world keeps spinning.
QUOTE:
| Also, transpeople having their genitalia surgically altered and taking hormones doesn't change their chromosomes that determine whether a person is male or female. |
|
|
No, it doesn't change chromosomes. But if you want to invoke Science™, then actually read up on current scientific literature, which will tell you that gender and sex are not the same and that both are more complicated than chromosomes and anatomy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
No one is advocating people being forced to date people they aren't attracted to. There are people who won't date someone of another race. Is that racist? Maybe? Maybe not? The world keeps spinning.
_____________________________
Try telling that to all of those people on social media who went after the singer Genuine and labeled him "transphobic" because he revoked the advances of a transwoman on the British version of Celebrity Big Brother solely because she is transgender. The sad fact of the matter is that in today's hyper PC times, if you refuse to date anyone because of their race or sexuality, you will be labeled a bigot and will get raked over the coals for your choice.
No, it doesn't change chromosomes. But if you want to invoke Science™, then actually read up on current scientific literature, which will tell you that gender and sex are not the same and that both are more complicated than chromosomes and anatomy.
_______________________________________
I'm quite aware of the modern day scientific theory about sex and gender are not the same thing. I just don't agree with that theory. The thing about science is that what scientists might think is true today, they might learn is not true tomorrow. There are modern day scientists out there who disagree with theory or findings that sex and gender are not the same thing. However, I do think that might be some validity to one recent theory that transgender (as well as homosexuality) might be a type of intersex. Regardless, people have the right to live their lives as they see fit free from discrimination.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
Regardless, people have the right to live their lives as they see fit free from discrimination.••• Which rather brings us back to my original post, and the consideration we must make of all rights, in all situations.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15783
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
A fairly long article from last year that I think offers a balanced exploration of the issue of transgender athletes:
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
Which rather brings us back to my original post, and the consideration we must make of all rights, in all situations.
_________________________________
I think that it could be done if we all deal with each situation with honesty and common sense.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
|
| Posted: 12 August 2019 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
...honesty and common sense... ••• In the age of the Internet?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
|
| Posted: 13 August 2019 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
A friend of mine also said that it was transphobic. My problem with that is that if a straight person refuses to date a transperson because they don't see said person as being the gender/sex that they transitioned to, that they will now be labeled as being transphobic.•• A person who declines to date a member of the opposite sex, for whatever reason, can do so without being subjected to labels. "S/he's not my type" should be sufficient justification. The same must apply for members of the transgender community. Identifying as something other than the biological form one inhabits should not command special privileges. We do not want to see an Orwellian society, where all are equal, but some are more equal than others.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
|
| Posted: 13 August 2019 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
(I’ll borrow this thread title for a moment to note that Wikipedia once again has me listed as Canadian-American. Someone with too much time on their hands—and an apparent obsession with me—is determined that my nationality [unhyphenated American since 1988] will never be listed correctly. And people TRUST Wikipedia, I’m told.)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
