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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

It’s also important to remember that in the Thirties and Forties, with very little money attached beyond basic page rates, few worried much about claiming “creation” of characters.
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Recalling, too, when the Image boys announced they were going to swap books for a month (did they actually do it?), so McFarlane would not “create” SPAWN that month, and Jim Lee would not “create” WILDCATS. So obsessed with “creator’s rights” (their own) they tried to turn “create” into an ongoing process.

It isn’t tho. Creation happens only ONCE, at the start. When nothing is replaced with something. What follows is extrapolation.

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

That did happen, JB. 
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

If John Lennon and Paul McCartney made something out of nothing by devising a composition of music and words, but after that George Harrison added a guitar solo (which was his job) and Ringo added drum fills (which was his job), and George Martin added an overall arrangement (which was his job), and Geoff Emerick, the engineer, added a particular recording technique (which was his job), then -- unquestionably -- the final product would not be the same as what had originally been composed... and yet, does this mean Lennon-McCartney-Harrison-Starkey-Martin-Emerick created the song?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Did I create the Fantastic Four?
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Nope. Did you create STORIES featuring those characters? Yep. Cracking good ones. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 22 July 2019 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Mr. Byrne: "...the current rules at Marvel hold that the first people to write and draw a character are the “creators” of that character. "

I hope your lawn is okay after the truckloads of money from Venom have been delivered to you. Ditto for Kitty Pryde.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 July 2019 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I’ve jested about having created Venom, but by Marvel’s rules Roger Stern and I were the first to write and draw the (unnamed) character—tho even there a case could be made that Rog was merely extrapolating from an existing concept.
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Craig Earl
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Posted: 22 July 2019 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The actual creators should, of course, be given the upmost respect, but I'm sure that we can all think of instances where the characters themselves have gone way beyond the confines of the original concept when in different hands. 

I enjoyed Stan's DD but I loved Frank MIller's iteration. Same for MIchelinie & Layton's Iron Man and Alan Moore's Captain Britain. And the X-Men? Never better than under Chris & JB IMO.   

The legitimate creators should always be acknowledged, but let's not forget that some of these characters might have faded into obscurity without a fresh lick of paint.

On course, on the flip side we have the car crash of what was done to Alpha Flight... 
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 23 July 2019 at 2:30am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Sidebar: When Chris was cobbling together the New Mutants, concern was expressed that I might make some claim on them, since the idea was originally mine. Shooter called and asked what I intended to do. I said if Chris made no claim against Alpha Flight, I’d make no claim against the New Mutants. On the basis of that telephonic “handshake deal”, that’s where it’s stood since.

=========================================================

Thanks for that. I've long pondered why Chris Claremont never got a credit on Alpha Flight given his input in to their appearances in Uncanny X-Men.
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 23 July 2019 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Chris had no “input”. Alpha Flight were my characters, name, rank and serial number.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 23 July 2019 at 6:45am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Slight tangent, but I remember reading the reprint of 109 that was inside AF#17 for the first time and thinking that Guardian was oddly focused on the X-Men's nationalities/ethnicities. "His accent sounds Russian." "Lightning from that Black woman's hands!"
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