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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 05 April 2019 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 1
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JB, I believe the period you were working on the project, DC was not yet doing stories set outside of current continuity, but had Elseworlds been an option at that point, would that had been acceptable to you?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 05 April 2019 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 2
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I believe the period you were working on the project, DC was not yet doing stories set outside of current continuity…•• DKR, WATCHMEN. . . . .
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 05 April 2019 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 3
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Perhaps ironically, there's now an "Earth-Five" where traditional versions of the Marvel Family and their friends and adversaries live.
Not that DC is doing much of anything with them, of course.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 05 April 2019 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 4
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Perhaps ironically, there's now an "Earth-Five" where traditional versions of the Marvel Family and their friends and adversaries live.•• Ironically? Sounds like SOP for DC. They seem almost always to have "traditional" versions of their characters everywhere. Usually in trade paperbacks released just before some massive shake-up.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 05 April 2019 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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The new SHAZAM film opened this week, and it portrays the character as a child in a man's body, with superpowers. Basically, it's a superhero makeover of the Tom Hanks film BIG.
Even in the comics it seems writers can't decide if the character once known as the original Captain Marvel is supposed to be a child in adult form, or a child who changes into an adult. But for the camp that thinks it's the former, where does the wisdom of Solomon fit in? His powers are derived from the gods, and the "S" in "Shazam" stands for "Solomon," so why would Captain Marvel ever act childish? Is the wisdom something he has to concentrate on in order to access it?
Thoughts?
____________________________________
What is currently happening to Captain Marvel/SHAZAM in the current comics and in the current movie is why some fans shouldn't become pros.
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
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| Posted: 06 April 2019 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 6
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Earth-5... because a 5 looks like an S, the original designation for the Fawcett heroes' world, Earth-S?
Discussing Solomon and is wisdom... is this any different than the "power" of Zeus? It's pretty obvious that Captain Marvel was created to be a counterpoint to Superman (their name is Legion) and Shazam sounded good, was memorable, and needed to be a nifty abbreviation.
Really, the powers for the World's Mightiest Mortal are strength (Hercules or Atlas), speed (Mercury), and invulnerability (Achilles.) The others had to supply something - wisdom, stamina, and power - but I don't think there is supposed to be a direct correlation to Cap's abilities.
I think wisdom is just a way for Captain Marvel to make the right decisions without blatantly saying, "Hey, the writer knows what's supposed to happen, so we ascribe it in the story to his wisdom." Obviously this was never outright stated... but it DOES make a nice explanation of knowledge in context without it being impossible for Cap to know it, doesn't it?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 April 2019 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 7
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I've long thought the "power" of Zeus might be encapsulated in the transformation. The King of Olympus had a fondness for changing his physical form.
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Brandon Frye
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Joined: 17 November 2004
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| Posted: 06 April 2019 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 8
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I was always under the impression that Billy and Captain Marvel were two separate entities that shared the same memories rather than one being that had two different forms.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 06 April 2019 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 9
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Confusion arise from Mary Marvel seeming very much to be a “grown up” version of Mary Batson—tho not as grown up as Cap. And then there’s Freddie, whose lame leg is cured when he becomes Captain Marvel Jr, but who seems otherwise unchanged. Likewise the three Lieutenant Marvels. And do not even get me started on Hoppy, the Marvel Bunny!!
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 06 April 2019 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 10
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Earth-5... because a 5 looks like an S, the original designation for the Fawcett heroes' world, Earth-S?
***
Yup.
I think it's clear that Shazam is based on Captain Marvel but is a different character. Johns is doing what he thinks will make the character popular. I don't like it, but I don't blame him. It's not as him he hadn't worked with the older DC version of the character in JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA and 52.
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Paul Reis
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 07 April 2019 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 11
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i always felt that the Roy Thomas/Gil Kane version of Captain Marvel handled the transformation between civilian and superhero quite well (other differences aside) while respectfully updating the original idea.
(yes, i know we are talking about entirely different characters, and different companies, but this discussion centers around the transformation of Billy Batson to/from Captain Marvel. i just feel what Marvel did was a good reboot. it was all DC's fault, i believe, by letting the copyright 'run out' and allowing Marvel to step in, forcing themselves to rename their own character: Shazam when they were finally ready to do something with the 'Captain Marvel' property)
Edited by Paul Reis on 07 April 2019 at 11:36am
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 07 April 2019 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 12
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The only version of Captain Marvel that Johns ever worked with was the post-Legends "naif-in-a-man's-body." And for most of his time with him, he presented the character in a blood-soaked, hyper-violent world filled with dismemberment, death, and horrible things being done to his now-overtly-sexualized sister.
Thomas's Mar-Vell update was a fun nod to the original Captain Marvel, but it also introduced the fannishly overthought idea that Billy goes someplace else when Cap shows up. The same sort of over-thinking would later give us Alan Moore's concept of "Q-Space," where everyone's civilian form hangs about floating in space waiting to called back.
DC was not at fault for failing to guard the Captain Marvel copyright. It wasn't theirs to protect. Fawcett's owners still held the rights to character following their decision to stop publication and did not defend those rights going forward. This allowed for cheesier takes on the name and concept such as Fatman, the Human Flying Saucer and the "Split! Xam!" version, just prior to Marvel's swooping in and gobbling up the name for its own purposes.
DC licensed the character and many others from their original owners in the 70's. It did not own them. It only purchased them outright in recent years.
Edited by Brian Hague on 07 April 2019 at 12:33pm
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