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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Re: Steve

Yeah, I get that. If all the humans got together against the Night King in a LOTR final battle way it wouldn't be satisfying either. Actually, I don't even have a suggestion as how it should've went down. I thought the show would surprise me in some way.

But this... I don't know, it wasn't terrible but it felt too easy. The "Kill the Night King and the whole army will go down" thing, although it was properly anticipated is still kinda cheap. 

Also, I can't shake the feeling that if this is the way the White Walkers end and it's back to the battle for the throne why introduce them at all? With some tweaks here and there, the story could've been told without the White Walkers even existing.


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Rick Senger
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

When it was over I felt let down (one extended episode to resolve seven+ seasons of buildup?), but the more I reflect, the more I must admit this was a remarkable episode.  Epic moments all around.  John stalking the Night King only to have TNK barely pause and acknowledge him long enough to raise all of John's dead comrades and surround him just as those hiding in the crypt get attacked by suddenly reanimated dead entombed relatives and royalty.  Lyanna's worthy and valiant death (I adored that little spitfire) and parting shot to the giant.  Jorah's equally gallant death saving his queen and the love of his life.  Theon finally getting to partially redeem himself defending Bran and facing his end cleanly and bravely.  

While seeing Tyrion and Sansa cowering was sad, it wasn't that unrealistic; Tyrion had a moment of bravery in the earlier battle but clearly both are more cerebral and equally unequipped to challenge the physicality of the white walkers. 

I felt the dragon interactions in the fog were less successful.  Somewhere I read that it would have been nice if the dragons had different colored saddles so we could recognize who was who and I agree.  Generally Dany and Jon and Jaime and Brienne didn't get as much action as I hoped.  My fantasy was that Dany would whisper Drakarus and walk into her own dragon's flame as it bathed the Night King and strike him down in the confusion but it turned out Dany could barely handle a sword at all (not a bad revelation; she has generally relied mostly on her guile and dragons before).  And it is true that wars are often won and lost as much by those in the anonymous pack as by the faces who command. 

On that score, Arya's dispatching of the Night King was satisfying.  There was always a sense she was destined for greatness but all the training and ordeals she endured from her toy sword tutelage and encouragement by Daddy Stark to the abuse from the Faceless Men and the Waif to her time with the Hound suddenly took on added weight as she used all of it to kill TNK. From her hide and seek white walker evasion to inspiring the cowardly Hound to rise above and aid her in surviving long enough to maneuver into position to deliver the coup de grace, all of it feltearned.  The brutal teachings of the Faceless Man / Waif seemed right on point during her skillful evasion of the white walkers in the darkened chamber.  Her knowledge of thecatacombs where she'd played as a girl clearly enabled her to position herself (ala her clever luring of the Waif into the dark enclosed room where Arya's blindness became an advantage) to get her shot.  The no-look knife trick used to dispatch TNK was also a worthy sleight of hand that seemed well informed by Arya's prior blind training.  TNK's genuine surprise was fun to watch (he was far from the first to underestimate her.)

Melisandre's abrupt arrival felt out of left field though the way she was handled subsequently was okay.  The visual of all the Dothraki etal swords lighting was almost as powerful as them dousing one by one as they came up against the unseen dark forces that rapidly took them down.  I didn't like a fair amount of the dark cinematography but that one shot was as powerful as any in the whole show and partially compensated.  

So, overall some minor complaints and I'm going to watch it again but the more I think about it the day after, the more I think they met the challenge pretty well. 
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I thought Jon was going to live, but get blasted with fire proving his heritage when he survived.
*****
Nice idea.  That would have been a cool visual as well as a neatly efficient proof. 
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Craig Markley
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The no-look knife trick used to dispatch TNK was also a
worthy sleight of hand that seemed well informed by
Arya's prior blind training.
*****
I believe Arya used that trick once while sparing with
Brienne.

I'm wondering if Arya's art of using dead faces will
return in the next few episodes. Predictions are that
Jaime will die and Arya using his face to kill Cersi.
I don't see the writers having her kill a pregnant
woman (if she is indeed pregnant).

I think that Dany is slowly turning mad. She will do
something that will prevent her from the Iron Throne.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I enjoyed the quasi-flirting between Sansa and Tyrion, and her warning to Tyrion that it would never work between the two of them because of his allegiance to Dany still has me feeling that the final conflict will be between the two of them. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I'm curious what you guys think...

One of the complaints from some fans and critics is that since the series has went past the story in the books, it has become more predictable and more "Hollywood" in how the story is unfolding.

It was reported that once the show got past the books, George R R Martin gave the showrunners the basic outline of how the entire story wraps up. Now, based on what we've seen,  and what the showrunners have said in interviews and behind the scenes looks, the past few episodes and last couple of seasons they have written their own conclusions to some of the ongoing plot threads. As we approach the final battle, though, will they adhere more closely to Martin's vision? Will these final three episodes be more like the first seasons of GOT?

Oh, and for the record, I have enjoyed most of every season.  I like unpredictability,  but I don't mind some predictable outcomes if it's still satisfying. 



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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

One of the complaints from some fans and critics is that since the series has went past the story in the books, it has become more predictable and more "Hollywood" in how the story is unfolding.

-----

I think it's unfair to compare early seasons of a show, where everything is new to the audience and the plot can afford to take unexpected twists, with the final seasons of the show, where the characters are familiar and plots that have been running throughout the entirety of the series are coming to a close.

There is nothing wrong with a show being predictable as long as that predictability stems from well-developed character and story, rather than being the product of cliche.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 29 April 2019 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I pretty much made that exact complaint above.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 30 April 2019 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Robert Baratheon called it.  

“Ned, you have a daughter....and I have a son.  Let our two great houses be joined.”

Gendry and Arya will become a ‘thing’.   Unless Arya gets killed being a badass....which is likely now that I love her even more than ever.

I felt the darkness of most of the scenes was perfect.  The Night King certainly didn’t want things to be so visible.  Thats why he rolled in the fog.  The dark atmosphere made you LISTEN as mush as watch.  Just as Mr. Byrne’s ‘Snowblind’ issue made you read the word and imagine the action.   The darkness was on purpose and effective to me. The lights of the Dothraki blades being snuffed out in the distance one by one was chilling.

It led to the absolute creepy feeling of being in the middle of that battle.  GoT has been pretty good and put you, the view in the midst of the big battles.  The Battle of Winterfell pulled it off well.  Only the Battle of The Bastards did it better.  The scene where Jon was being buried by dead bodies was certainly triggering my own claustrophobia.  

Game Of Thrones is rolling pretty hard and I have a feeling the best is yet to come.  

Cersei ain’t going quietly....
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2019 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I was on media blackout of all kinds over the weekend.  Two screenings of ENDGAME in two days and Simko in town visiting for that very reason.  I didn't want GoT to be spoiled as I couldn't watch until last night.  And when I finally did?  I thought it was epic.  Hands down one of my favorite episodes of the series.  I thought it was all kinds of brilliant. From character's realizing seven seasons of potential, to carefully layered plot threads reaching a conclusion, to the visuals (I'll get to that in a moment), it was compelling and satisfying in all the right ways for me. 

There have been some complaints made here and elsewhere about the episode.  I'm only going to address two.  1) I've read elsewhere the complaint that there was very little dialogue in this episode.  To that I say "Huh?"  Seven seasons of buildup, the first two episodes of Season 8 to reset and lay the stakes.  I think there was enough talk.  There needed to be action.  What dialogue there was hit home: Tyrion wanting to go do something instead of being in the crypt, Sansa saying the most noble thing they could do is to not hinder the battle but try and live, the exchange between Melisandra and Arya "Not today", Bran telling Theon that he's a good man.  So many exchanges said in so few words while hell is happening on the battlefield.  To me?  Perfection.

The other complaint: 2) the episode was visually too dark.  In this I can see partial understanding.  Before I upgraded our main television, my old DLP just couldn't handle the contrast.  Every dark scene in nearly every movie and series was DARK.  But since having upgraded, I've had no issues.  The compression rate for both the cable version and streaming is fairly awful but GoT/HBO isn't going to sacrifice its future presentations by modifying or "dumbing down" if you will present limitations.  All that said, I also thought it a brilliant way to see the undead in a way we hadn't before.  The darkness was palpable, a character unto itself.  Listening in Dolby 7.1 surround only heightened that sense of dread because what you couldn't see was certainly making noises.  And when we finally did see the dead crashing into Winterfell, they felt like an unstoppable wave, like a literal deadly 15 foot wave of water that was not (could not) be stopped. We were seeing the battle from the POV of the human, living combatants and in that the choice of when to use light (so effective with the lighting of the swords and then seeing them slowly extinguish) to the dragon's breathing fire on the undead to the moat being lit as a beacon for Dany was extremely effective. I, for one, had zero problems with choice and thought it worked incredibly well. 

So, so good.  Really looking forward to the shift in focus to King's Landing after the inevitable resolutions this battle had on all the surviving combatants. 
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 30 April 2019 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I didn't have a problem with the darkness per se, but my TV was showing a fair amount of pixellation at times. Wasn't sure if it that was just my shitty set-up, but as you suggest, may be to do with the compression rate (I recorded it to my DVR but also have access to on-demand for GOT and I tried both -- both had the same problem). Still enjoyed the epic battle.

No problem with terse dialogue in such a set-up, and it came as a counterpoint to the previous week's build-up episode, where it was all reflection between the cohorts.

I thought it was a very good episode but I would stop short of calling it perfect. Denaerys seemed underutilised and I felt it was too sharp of a turn from the impossibility of the odds to the ease at which the Night King fell. Let's face it, with one-handed Jaime buried in undead, he should not have survived. Stategically, I feel the Night King would have been less cavalier about exposing himself when he had the ability to shelter himself so easily with his undead hordes.

Still, epic and enjoyable stuff.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 30 April 2019 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I didn't like that other than when on the dragons, there was no real fight against the Night King himself.

Night King? Hah. More like Night Coward, since he wouldn't fight Jon. And Arya killed him way too easily. Though it was cool (pardon the pun) how that was pulled off.

The character I'm worried about is Sam. Last time we saw him, he wasn't looking too good.

*edited to add* Best kill of the battle? Lyanna Mormont. Sure, she died, but she still died like a boss, taking that giant out.





Edited by Brian Floyd on 30 April 2019 at 2:33pm
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