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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Crisis did ruin All-Star Squadron. Which was a favourite of mine.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Greg, Crisis ruined the whole DCU. It was 100x more confusing AFTER COIE than before. Look at the confusion it brought to Superman and Wonder Woman, and how things had to scraped and restarted (superbly, as it happens). The JSA suddenly was ALWAYS on the JLA's Earth... so why didn't they reform to battle the Appelaxian invaders?

Enough questions like that... this way lies madness. But I agree with you; A-SS and the JSA were pretty roughly treated. And I missed the Superfriends* from Earth-2.... I thought the occasional appearances were tantalizing and fun.

*Of course, they weren't CALLED the Superfriends... but it was emphasized that Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman were removed from that past. I don't recall how Green Arrow and Speedy were treated, but the Seven Solders probably got pretty fouled up too.
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Ted Downum
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

JB: When snobby fanboys started saying the DC Universe had become “too confusing” for New Readers, and needed to be “cleaned up,” those same fanboys had mostly taken over.

*****

What's confusing to me now is that the pre-Crisis DC Universe was not confusing to me then

Probably 85% of what I read as a kid was Marvel, but if I picked up the occasional DC book that referenced the multiverse (like JLA/JSA crossovers), I didn't have any trouble following what was going on, and neither did anybody I knew. If anything, the parallel-universe aspect of those stories didn't detract from the fun; it added to the fun. It may have helped that my friends and I were all Trekkies who loved "Mirror, Mirror."

Maybe there were readers out there who found the whole thing baffling or off-putting; I've just never thought that the "confusing the readers" argument for Crisis held much water.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Like I said, snobs! Oh, WE can follow this, but these mental deficient dweebs don’t have a hope!
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Did anyone at DC ever admit that the real problem was that writers couldn't keep track of which characters belonged on Earth-One and which ones belonged on Earth-Two? Because it happened repeatedly. Characters whose first appearances would have predated the first appearance of Superboy (and Wonder Woman, who must have been active in Man's World at the same time that Clark was Superboy) kept showing up on Earth-One:

Air Wave
The Guardian
Captain Comet
Zatara (father of Zatanna, after all)
Immortal Man
Robotman (Robert Crane)
Manhunter (Paul Kirk)
Plastic Man
Wildcat


So much for Kal-El being Earth-One's first superhero, as was repeatedly stated before 1986. 
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


Adam Schulman, why is this a boxed set that fans should not buy?  Because doing so would... what?



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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Adam S. - ah, set 'em up in the next alley!

Your list is excellent, and "Superboy/man was Earth-1's first super hero" is a tough nut to encompass. Then again, it depends on other factors. Superboy stories started before the Golden Age ended (Jan 45 for the Boy of Steel, and All-Star Comics featuring the JSA was published in Mar 51.) So the immediate question is - was there a Golden Age Superboy? 

You can get into a lot of fist fights (figurative, y'know) on when exactly the Silver Age started. Showcase #4? Superman #76? Detective #225? Strange Adventures #9? It's tough to set a timeline, let alone when Superman "debuted" on Earth-1.

And your list is excellent. Superboy met a number of super heroes. I think about "The Adventures of Superboy", "Superboy", and Justice League of America #144. Now we start playing with relative ages, but in addition to the heroes you listed, we COULD consider....

The Blackhawks
The Challengers of the Unknown
Congo Bill/Congorilla
Dr. Mist
Green Lanterns - Tomar-Re knew of Krypton's explosion and tried to stop it. Although not as permanently on Earth as Hal Jordan, he was active. Of course, we could throw in the Guardians of the Universe too.
J'onn J'onzz - it seems as if he's old enough to have been active on Earth prior to Superboy's first appearance
Rising Sun - actually, he appeared as an adult in a Superboy story so he's pretty likely.
The Seraph
The Spectre - he seemed to be on any Earth as necessary. But, y'know, God's will and all that.

There were also war heroes (Revolutionary, and WWs 1 and 2) that had their share of "super" heroes. 

Not a lick of these had interrupted continuity, and you're quite correct about the ambiguity of some of them - for example, it's perfectly obvious that Bob Crane was on both Earths. Mind you, there's nothing to say that this WASN'T the same situation as Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonder Woman, etc. - there were simply two of them.

It might well be that the problem was the insistence that Superman was the first super hero on Earth. Heck, post-Crisis, an objective observer might say that Superman was just a knock-off of Dr. Fate, right down to the blue bodysuit.

None of this was ever brought up - not because it didn't occur, but because no one needed to know about it. As Mr. Byrne has often said... just don't ever mention it again. But that was a little too simple for a big crossover event (money-maker? I think it's hard to tell at this late date.)
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 20 March 2019 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I was still something of a kid (19) when CRISIS hit and, though I LOVED Earth-2, I was enjoying CRISIS as it went along and I was looking forward to the aftermath.  And then somewhere in there Tommy Tomorrow and Kamandi were revealed to be the same person and Tommy survived the "merge" while Kamandi and his world were erased from existence.

It was at that point I realized "Oh no..."
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