Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 3
Topic: Guardian Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1081
Posted: 09 February 2019 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

What is great about the death of Guardian storyline is the slow build up at JB was so good at and the dealing with the aftermath.

The storyline essentially starts in AF 2 and 3, in the back-up origin tale, in interludes in AF 6, 7 and 10 before becoming the main story line in 11 and 12 (with 13 providing a suitable epilogue). How many books now (or even then) rewarded the regular readers with such a beautiful and patient build up whilst cleverly avoiding alienation to those that jumped on at, say, issue 11?
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4772
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 3:06am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I was around 15 when Mac died. I was shocked as he was the main lead of the team, and you don't kill the leader.

Then when he came back I was very sceptical, but I enjoyed the ride.

Then, when he DID come back, in the exact same manner, I was annoyed and insulted. And I gave up on the comic. 
Since then, Alpha Flight has become 'the team that dies'. They keep coming back, only for that writer to kill them all again. 

Such a sad legacy, such a mis-read of what they were. Such a disappointment.

Side bar - I loved some of Bill Mantlo's comics - Micronauts, ROM were among my favourites, at least initially, but both I feel lost it in their later runs. He did, however, have a tendency to 'acquire' stories from elsewhere and retell those stories with a minimal effort of re-purposing. That was a big failure, and the fact that his return of mac was so close in time to JB's fake out AND it was even in the same title is something I cannot understand why the editor didn't insist that the story was killed.

Incidentally, why does Alan Moore get a pass with Rorschach's origin being lifted lock stock and hack saw from the end of Mad Max? Again, I liked a lot of what he used to write but man does that guy copy. Skizz was ET for instance (I know, I know, 2000 AD had a policy of looking at what was currently successful and re-purposing it, but Skizz was just too on the nose). And then to have the gall to complain that people use his characters (well, characters he created but actually belong to the company he created them for) in other stories, while turning beloved characters in to sex mad children or the main villain of his latest piece. But I digress and make my blood boil.

Where was I? Oh yes, the death of Mac. Expertly handled and shocking in the extreme, because he was going to make it! He was cool, collected and had a plan. And then the door opens and he's distracted. And Heather has to live with seeing her husband blow up.

You're a horrible man Mr Byrne. But I love how you channel those horrible thoughts
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 113959
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Imagine how boring these comics would be if only nice things happened to the characters!
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4772
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:30am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

What never ceases to amaze me is how you can do such horrible things to characters yet keep your stories all ages (Next Men not withstanding).

I appreciate how you keep characters in the 'silo' that they were conceived in -
All ages remain all ages
New concepts/series, if created more mature, can cover more mature themes in a more mature manner. But don't put those in to a character that was created all ages.

There is talk of making the Black Widow film R rated - such a mistake in my mind and I wonder how many of the pitches start with that starting sentence that was used in so many Wonder Woman pitches that you mention.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3917
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

That was a big failure, and the fact that his return of mac was so close in time to JB's fake out AND it was even in the same title is something I cannot understand why the editor didn't insist that the story was killed.

=========================

Sorry if I misread this, but it was Fabian Nicieza that brought Mac back.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 113959
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

One of the bigger thrills of my career, as I noted recently in the SYFY interview clip, is that the characters I have created are "real". They are just as much a part of the MU as Spider-Man, the FF, the X-Men, etc. A different scale, to be sure, but they get to stand next to all those great characters with their heads held high.

For other writers, tho, I've long had the impression that the feeling is just the opposite. "These are Byrne's characters. They're fake. We can do whatever we want to them." I mean, not to sound too whiny or paranoid, but can anyone point to a handling of any of the characters that actually took them forward?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14547
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"...We can do whatever we want to them..."

Seems to be something too many writers these days think about any character. I don't think it's a personal attack, JB... I'm hard pressed to think of a Marvel or DC character, especially in the past decade or so, that hasn't been handled badly. In some cases, VERY badly.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 113959
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

T'is true. It's been all about the singer, not the song, for a long time now.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3529
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'd have to agree with Matt, fair game for any character created after 1980.
But I see what you mean, after reading what happened to Nudge, I would probably take it personal too.

JB, what are your thoughts on how Silver Banshee has been handled since your creation?
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4772
Posted: 10 February 2019 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Greg, thanks for pointing out my error. My apologies to Bill Mantlo for blaming him for this fiasco for years.

I will henceforth direct my bill towards the correct culprit.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2603
Posted: 11 February 2019 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"...We can do whatever we want to them..."

I'm pretty sure that I've shared this before but I remember a Joe Quesada interview where he mentioned that he had to curtail Brian Bendis always wanting to kill off characters by asking him how he'd feel if someone came in with a story to kill off Jessica Jones.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3917
Posted: 11 February 2019 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Greg, thanks for pointing out my error. My apologies to Bill Mantlo for blaming him for this fiasco for years.I will henceforth direct my bill towards the correct culprit.

===============

No problem 😉    
Back to Top profile | search
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 3
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login