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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 05 February 2019 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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The bringing back Guardian fake out was the most upset I'd been reading Alpha Flight since his death. I was SO excited he was back, but honestly as a story it worked much better to have it be a fake out than to actually belittle the original death story by bringing him back so this was a great example of not giving fans what they think they want but doing what worked better to tell a great story. The fact that some writer took that story and actually brought Guardian back with it is deeply upsetting and belittles the fact that Heather became a capable leader in her own right, even without having super powers or a super suit (another thing Mantlo screwed up during his run as well). These things and many others are why Alpha Flight has never worked or been a success by any other writer and artist that isn't John Byrne. No one else seems to get these characters and what made the original issues great and beloved by fans (if not by their creator :D).
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7979
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 2
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Ina very short time, Mac became one of my favorite
characters (I had only discovered him in Alpha Flight
#1). His death was crushing to me, and I was so
excited about his possible return, but I was BLOWN
AWAY by the reveal. Wow! This book was fantastic!
However, in light of what happened to Puck and the
twins, I was not at all surprised by what they did to
bring back Guardian. I mean, they totally changed
those three, so using JB's own 'story' to really bring
back Mac made sense, since it was already there.
Ultimately though, and no matter how much I loved him,
I feel that Mac should never have been brought back to
life. His creator 'killed' him to tell a very
specific story and dead he should remain.
I feel the same way about Frank Miller's Electra.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8030
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 3
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On the bright side, all that's needed to undo Guardian's return is to redisplay the panels of his burning body clearly speaking.
I did notice the discrepancy when I was a kid. But I actually let it go because I was just glad to see him back. That also provides an explanation of why Heather didn't question it, either!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 4
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I wonder if I could have pulled off Mac’s “resurrection” in the age of the Internet. Aside from moles having leaked the details months before publication*, the whole thing would have been subjected to microscopic dissection. The Obvious and Deliberate Flaw would, of course, have been assumed to be a mistake, and the Big Reveal a last minute fix. All of which would be still being reported today as fact. ——————— * Which actually happened with his death.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 5
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That whole using the Courtney story as the basis of the resurrection was weak writing.
Then it seemed to undo the character development of Heather. It forced her out of her role that she had built up (although I am against putting her in the suit), and set her back. It was pointless as Mac was "killed" again in AF # 100.
In hindsight, I am amazed AF lasted as long as it did after JB's departure. It was a real roller coaster of quality in every department after that.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 6
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All of this due to a writer with a track record of not doing his homework (see Psylocke).
=======================================================
And because the writer was writing 7 books a month at some points. That is stretching yourself thin. Stan Lee might have made it work, but not everyone has that talent.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 7
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Greg - And I believe Stan was relying quite heavily on the Marvel Method to get out as many books as he did. He plotted them, and let the artists contribute to the story so that it was done by many hands.
Or so I assume. Obviously I wasn't there, and maybe Stan COULD write eight stories a month!
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David Schmidt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 July 2017
Location: France
Posts: 441
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 8
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I already posted about Guardian resurrection and how the lie worked with me despite the unbelievable story... I still can't believe the lie turned eventually true even if Marvel found worse way of bringing back dead characters...
Edited by David Schmidt on 06 February 2019 at 11:03am
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 9
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Eric -- I assume the same with Stan. It was also the fact he could plot a number of stories a month.
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Jeffrey Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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Reading these posts reminds me of a conversation with house builders about their past works. "What did they add THAT for??"
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Jim Lynch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 617
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 11
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wait, wait, wait, I'm very obtuse here, but...
when 'Mac' returned in AF 25, 'he' told Heather a BS story about how 'he' survived, which was later learned to be false.
BUT Later, that BS story turned out to be true?
Seriously...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
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| Posted: 06 February 2019 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 12
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Yup.
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