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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132241
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 1
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I knew the X-Men had come to a bad place when the creation of Bishop was ordered--by the marketing department!
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Dale E Ingram
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 July 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 75
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 2
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In my experience as a citizen of this planet, any time anything is driven by the marketing department, in any industry, it is a bad thing.
How involved were they in Bishop's "creation"?
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 3
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That explains a lot. You can find very few interviews with Nicieza about that period as he doesn't seem to like discussing what was going on at Marvel and what the writers were being subjected to by corporate. Any he has given are very short and move on to his other works.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 4
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How involved were they in Bishop's "creation"?•• The order came down "There must be a new X-Men character! And he must be Black!" Lee and Portacio did the heavy lifting--taking the name, of course, from the Lance Hendrickson character in ALIENS. Another example of a character name that tells us nothing about the character. (Sidebar: Whilce wanted Bishop to be from an "alternate future"--and not the one that sprang from "Days of Future Past". I resisted that. "We already have on alternate future, please let's not clutter the field with moe." Happily, I prevailed--perhaps my only contribution in my brief tenure.)
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30888
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 5
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JB, what did you think of Lee and Whilce’s art? I know you’ve spoken of the plot/ writing troubles you had at that time, but haven’t seen anything where you speak of their actual art.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 6
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I thought Bishop came from the same version of the future as Cable...?
Yet another character that kept me away from X-Men comics for many years.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 7
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Wouldn’t be surprised if someone did an end run on my version. Nothing succeeds like redundancy.
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Dale E Ingram
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Joined: 01 July 2015
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 8
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About Fabian Nicieza: He was fine with corporate interference on the editorial side. Prior to becoming the writer on X-Men and working with Liefeld on New Mutants, he worked in Marvel's Advertising/Marketing department. He was a champion of cancelling New Mutants and relaunching it as X-Force.
His quitting seemed to be more about a clash with Editorial than due to corporate interference.
He talks about it in this interview, on the Epic Marvel Podcast. It's a pretty good interview, lots of insight into what was going on at Marvel during his time there.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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Greg McPhee wrote:
| Chris Claremont has said in interviews that knowing how things turned out with the Image exodus, he wonders if he'd played along with Bob Harris that he might have been a very valuable asset to Marvel after they all jumped ship. |
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John Byrne wrote:
| Chris is perhaps misremember. Marvel has a long history of discouraging the talent from thinking themselves important. The characters are important. The keyboard tappers and pencil pushers are... fungible. |
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All Chris had to do was shine on until Summer 1992, and then Bob Harras would have let him do whatever he wanted, assuming what he wanted to do was X-Cutioner's Song.
Edited by David Miller on 12 February 2019 at 8:19pm
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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 10
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As a whole, Marvel really went in to a bad place in the 90's. The writers have said in many interviews that editorial were controlling the books more and more. David Michelinie, Len Kaminski, Roy Thomas and John Romita, Jr. have all talked about the toxic atmosphere at Marvel at that point.
Romita, Jr. was fired off the X-Men circa 1993 because of editors. He discusses it in Marvel Modern Masters Vol. 18.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 11
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Too much quoting. Links only, please.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
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| Posted: 12 February 2019 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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Too much quoting. Links only, please.
==================================================
Done
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