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Bill Collins
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Regarding Ms Martin-Green`s performance, are we
forgetting that Burnham has been raised on Vulcan, so
she will have stiff traits. I like the show, in fact
Friday has become the highlight of my viewing week, as
it`s when i watch The Orville too.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 2:14am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

<<Regarding Ms Martin-Green`s performance, are we 
forgetting that Burnham has been raised on Vulcan, so 
she will have stiff traits>>

Yes, I get that and agree - though it does make a sympathetic lead rather challenging!
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Well. Ok. Here we go.

1) A show with Pike just doing Pikey things?  Amen, bro.
2) Sarek Amanda Magic Tardis Beans? Copy that.
3) Wow, well I really enjoyed the Trek finale but I must be a total sucker because there was so much ridiculous stuff in itits like we are gong to get nit-picked anyway so we are going to invade North Korea, get a lap dance from Stormy Daniels live on TV and end birthright citizenship all at the same time so they really wont complain about all of the times I have obstructed logic.

I don't know what else to say. Seriously. Has there ever been a show that has been this expensive, but this eff'd up with moldy pocket universes of bad writing and yet still this entertaining? And one that miscreant incels rail against as "not Trek" while Trekkies as old as 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 embrace it wildly? Crazy.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Snark away as much as you want with half-witty diatribes about how DISCOVERY doesn't conform to your predisposed narrative about how stories, in general, should be told and about how STAR TREK, in specific, should unfold. Revel in your "witty" repartee about your supposed understanding of key points, characters and plot while regaling us with stories about why we shouldn't enjoy what we do even though we really do despite your condescending objections.  Go on a multi-paragraph rant about what you hate about the most recent episode and sarcastically comment on every little thing you find objectionable to your heart's content.  

I'm here to tell you that there is someone who objects, who thinks it's wrong to assume, and thinks it's incredibly mean-spirited to post bullshit personal opinions in the form of itemized "reviews" as if they were incontrovertible fact. 

I like STAR TREK.

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John Harrison
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Got goosebumps when Spock took his station

The rest didn't change my opinion its a good exit point for me.  Discovery is gone Spock is in uniform Captain Pike and the Enterprise are out exploring the galaxy   

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

This season was good.  But assuming they don't come back and undo the season ending, season 3 has the chance to be truly great.  They've basically freed themselves from all the continuity concerns going forward.  And frankly, Pike's Enterprise this season pretty much shot the wad in terms of what canon ties could do for the show.  Discovery is now set up to actually go where we haven't gone before and discover things.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 19 April 2019 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I don't know what else to say. Seriously. Has there ever been a show that has been this expensive, but this eff'd up with moldy pocket universes of bad writing and yet still this entertaining? And one that miscreant incels rail against as "not Trek" while Trekkies as old as 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 embrace it wildly? Crazy.

DOCTOR WHO, perhaps.  Both shows have been around long enough that their audiences have broadend, grown older, and spread out among different generations with very different viewpoints and values.   Both shows had periods where they were 'rested' (yet flourished in other media) and came back stronger and more popular than ever before.  The current incarnation of both shows seem to have divided their audience's opinions in similar ways as well.   Given time the younger franchises like GAME OF THRONES and even THE EXPANSE will inevitably cultivate a similar divide between 'new' and 'old' fans.  DOCTOR WHO never had STAR TREK's budget though, even the 1960s TOS budget made DOCTOR WHO's look like pocket change. 

What's sobering is that DISCO is one of the most expensive pieces of television ever made yet its production costs aren't entirely out of line with what this kind of television has always cost to make over 'cheapies' like news programs, game shows, and reality TV.  Adjust TNG's 1-2 million/episode budget for inflation and you aren't all that far removed from DISCOVERY money -- even factoring in that CGI and virtual sets have much more bang for the buck compared to traditional modelwork and set design.   I'm always surprised that science fiction and fantasy even gets made these days and delighted when it sticks around along enough to make an impact.

I think part of DISCOVERY's problems lie in attempting to court the larger STAR TREK audience.   In trying to appease two vastly different kinds of viewership who have very different expectations they ended up making a bit of an unfocused muddle.   DISCO needed to be it's own show on it's own merits and not trying to slot itself into a specific era of the STAR TREK canon.

Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed this season a lot more than the first one -- perhaps grudgingly.   Would I have watched this show if it had been set in a post-TNG future that had no apparent connections to STAR TREK other than the name?   

Yes, I would.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 20 April 2019 at 7:58am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 April 2019 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Got goosebumps when Spock took his station

You are very generous. Via a little YouTubing I just got a look at the hot mess they made of the original Enterprise bridge. "Spock" could have been on any ship, in any period (other than TOS, of course).

sigh

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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 21 April 2019 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I appreciated what they were trying to do with the bridge. There were enough elements there to suggest a genuine effort to stay true to the look of the original bridge while updating it with 2019 sensibility. 

While I don't hate it, their mistake IMO was to over-saturate it with so much glitzy tech. 

Lighting it up like Las Vegas doesn't help either!

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 21 April 2019 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I liked it!
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 22 April 2019 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Would I have watched this show if it had been set in a post-TNG future that had no apparent connections to STAR TREK other than the name?   

Yes, I would.
----------------------------------------------
Kurtzman has confirmed that season 3 is going to grant your wish.

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Alex Prewitt
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Posted: 22 April 2019 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Spock's "Ricky Bobby" sideburns bugged me, but not that bridge design. I hated the Abramsverse, and their bridge. This design worked for me, evoking the original, but bringing it up to date, so to speak. 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 22 April 2019 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Vis a vis Matt's point regarding some of the local reviews.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 23 April 2019 at 6:34am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Thanks for posting that link, Steve. It goes to the heart of what I was responding to in my post a page back.  
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Just finished watching it - I thought it was an excellent season. One question around the red signals though, which may have been covered in the episode - I admit it was a lot to take in!

The seventh signal that appears at the end -  was that Burnham sending a message back to say they were ok in the future? Or was it Discovery coming back? Or something else?
Either way, Pike seemed in no hurry to investigate it!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

The seventh signal was indeed about Discovery (Burnham specifically) making it safely to the future.  She told Spock that's how she would let him know. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

As much as I've enjoyed this series so far (Season 2 better than 1), I've been consistently concerned about Discovery, the ship, and Burnham in the larger timeline.  As cool as the spore drive is, how to rectify that with what we know to be true: no mention of it or further use of it in any other iteration.  As to Burnham, how could Spock not have mentioned her existence to anyone?  

This season solved all that for me.  Love it or hate it, the last ten minutes goes into detail about why we know nothing of this advancement from ENTERPRISE forward and also why Burnham herself is never mentioned.  Personally, I thought it was a brilliant, daring choice to shift DISCOVERY nearly a thousand years into the future not only to solve that conundrum but for the series to live up to the mission statement of its ship. As Steve mentioned above, it's a chance for the series to breakout from really good to great by carving its own path. 

I, for one, am excited to see where it goes.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Ive loved this series - though to be honest I loved season 1 too, I do miss Lorca!

Now Discovery has travelled 1000 years into the future with the data sphere, the mysterious AI isnt so mysterious...?
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

There's a fan theory going around that based on the finale looks like it will remain a fan theory, so I'm not worried it'll end up spoiling anything.  Basically, in the "Regeneration" episode of Enterprise, they encountered those time-travelling borg from First Contact.  At the end of the episode, Malcolm tells everyone that the borg tech is now inactive.  Its also revealed that season that Malcolm has connections in Section 31.

So the theory is that Section 31 researchers used that future borg tech to produce all of the superior tech seen in seasons 1 and 2 of Discovery (the time suit, the spore drive, etc.).  Eventually, their experiments got out of their control and became Control.  Hence the eye-poke similarity with Picard/First Contact and Leland.

This gives two potential outs for comparing Discovery's Enterprise and TOS's.  Either a) any tech related to the Control experiments was stripped out of Federation vessels like the Enterprise's holographic communications or b) the differences of the appearances of things is a result of the borg's time travel.


Edited by Steve De Young on 24 April 2019 at 3:27pm
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 24 April 2019 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

"Has there ever been a show that....  DOCTOR WHO, perhaps."

Yep, good call.

"I'm always surprised that science fiction and fantasy even gets made these days and delighted when it sticks around along enough to make an impact."

Also agree.  It's like when the kids nitpick about an MCU movie or complain that something in one wasn't faithful to the comics. You have NO IDEA what we have been through. "Get off my lawn," indeed!

"I think part of DISCOVERY's problems lie in attempting to court the larger STAR TREK audience.   In trying to appease two vastly different kinds of viewership who have very different expectations they ended up making a bit of an unfocused muddle."

Not sure I agree for reasons stated above by me and others: 

1) Plenty of die-hard Trekkies LOVE Discovery....(Note: by definition "Trekkie" includes fans who were not obsessive AND didn't mind being called Trekkies and for that matter who didn't mind obsessive Trekkies in the first place...and after many years, most of the TV critics who drew a distinction between "Trekkies" and "Trekkers" have been let go in the media apocalypse...and Millennial journalists don't do any research... so "Trekkie" is making a comeback at last...). We thought the reboot movies were too dark--and yet Discovery is darker but still somehow manages to be faithful to the dream. I am not sure we have been "appeased." 

2) On the flip side, plenty of Trek fans have legit issues with the format, storytelling, editing, aesthetic, continuity, etc. These are people who might also like the Orville, which has done a great job of updating an old formula. If you had asked me ten years ago would I rather watch a random episode from the first season of B5 or one from the first season of TNG, I would have picked TNG. But ask me today and I will tell you B5 because while some of those B5 episodes are terrible, they aren't unwatchable--and the first season of TNG (with some exceptions) is largely unwatchable. I don't think that Discovery attempted to appease anyone who was pining to return to Farpoint, either.

3) Did Discovery try to appease an audience new to Star Trek? Not behind a paywall, it didn't.

4) The other audience Discovery didn't attempt to appease was the group of folks who wasted calories complaining about Captain Marvel and Brie Larson.  Actually, the same way Trump helped local sheriffs, town clerks and mayors self-identify themselves out of their jobs, Discovery helped bigots and conspiracy mongers self-report their own bigotry and insecurity to the rest of the world.

In summary, is Discovery a mess? Yes. But it is a hot mess!



Edited by Victor Perez on 24 April 2019 at 8:11pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 April 2019 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Spock's "Ricky Bobby" sideburns bugged me, but not that bridge design. I hated the Abramsverse, and their bridge. This design worked for me, evoking the original, but bringing it up to date, so to speak.

More exactly, turning it into something that will seem incredibly dated in a few years, which, even now, the TOS Bridge does not.

(Compare it to its contemporaries, the control rooms of the Seaview and the Jupiter II and see how timeless the TOS Bridge really is!)

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