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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 27 March 2019 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but Discovery has been green lit for a Season 3 (Sorry Greg).


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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 27 March 2019 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Good to hear, and not entirely unexpected since S2 generally seems to be getting a more postive response than S1.   

You do have to take the S3 announcement with a grain of salt since S2 hasn't even finished airing.   As far as I'm aware it's the most expensive show in history to make if you look at the per-episode breakdown.   They are well over 200 million dollars in and It feels like someone's keeping the lights on for S3 because of "too important to fail".   Once the other show(s) start -- in particular PICARD -- it'll be interesting to see what happens after S3.

Another factor is that Mount and Romjin are only around for S2.   Anson Mount is the anchor that they needed so desperately in S1 so I'm kind of feeling the show might lose some steam without him.   It's pretty clear to me DISCOVERY should have been PIKE'S ENTERPRISE (or something like that) all along.   It would have been an easier sell for CBS AA subscriptions -- the Enterprise being possibly the most recognizable element of the franchise to non-TREK fans next to Kirk and Spock.   It would have made the show at least somewhat palatable to longtime fans as well.  I would have been a little more forgiving of tech that doesn't resemble or evoke TOS/pre-TOS if it were a show that captured the same spirit and heart.


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Jim Muir
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Anson Mount has been brilliant and I'll be sad to see him leave. I'd be more than happy for Lorca to return though (presumbly there's a 'good' version of him floating round in this universe somewhere)
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The series, as discussed by the showrunners at PaleyFest, is about a person becoming captain of a starship.  Every other iteration has had a captain already in place and we followed their journey, be it Kirk, Picard and Archer on Enterprise, Janeway on Voyager, or Sisko on DS9.  Whether Burnham achieves that goal by the end of the series or sometime before that is yet to be seen ('natch) but it's the main arc of DISCOVERY.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Rob Ocelot wrote:
You do have to take the S3 announcement with a grain of salt since S2 hasn't even finished airing.   As far as I'm aware it's the most expensive show in history to make if you look at the per-episode breakdown.   They are well over 200 million dollars in and It feels like someone's keeping the lights on for S3 because of "too important to fail"

GAME OF THRONES might want to have a discussion with you.  That said, I'd challenge this persistent narrative of "too important to fail".  CBS, through Viacom, has been a master of recouping investment particularly on the television side.  CBS ALL ACCESS is only an American product.  Those ACCESS-only series are sold internationally.  That we neither know how much CBS is making off of subscriptions nor how much they've sold broadcast rights for in other territories make me highly skeptical of anyone claiming "loss leader", "too important to fail” or “Sunk Cost Fallacy”.  I really don't understand this fascination with having to pin some sort of "bomb" or "failure" tag to the series every other page of discussion.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Was at the PaleyFest DISCOVERY event today and it was confirmed (if it needed to be at all by now) that the series takes place in the Prime timeline.

••

Not sure how that's possible. Unless "Prime" means "completely writes over TOS."

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Jim Muir
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

<<CBS ALL ACCESS is only an American product.  Those ACCESS-only series are sold internationally.  >>

Matt beat me to it: I assume the failure narrative is partly driven, at least by the fact the DISCOVERY is only available behind a paywall - so it would be a natural (and I think reasonable) assumption that it isn't or can't make much profit.

But that's viewing it purely through a US lens.
Here in the UK, for instance, its shown on NETFLIX and costs me nothing (extra). It's certainly heavily promoted as a flagship offering. If this model is followed everywhere else in the world then I can't see how it can NOT make money. 
 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Some numbers were released when the first season came out.  The amount that CBS got for the international Netflix rights to Discovery S1 was slightly above the total production costs.  So before anyone subscribed to All Access or anything else, they had completely recouped their investment from that rights sale alone.

That's also why Netflix pushes the show so much in the countries where they have it.  They made a huge investment.  There were no statistics for Season 2, but given Netflix's continued promotion of the show, I imagine that at least a major portion of the production costs for S2 were recouped the same way.

Unless Netflix gets out of the Discovery business, the show will run as long as it wants to.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Re: "The series, as discussed by the showrunners at PaleyFest, is about a person becoming captain of a starship."

Gonna be a pretty long arc if it turns out that the show was about Tilly! :)


Edited by Victor Perez on 28 March 2019 at 2:11pm
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 28 March 2019 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Ah thanks Steve, that makes sense.

Perversely, all these interesting new shows (that originated in the US behind a myriad of different paywalls) like Discovery, teen titans, doom patrol etc... just appear on NETFLIX over here.

I’m not complaining, obviously...!
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 29 March 2019 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Ok, no spoilers: "Perpetual Infinity." enjoyed it, went fast, lots of talking and then lots of fisticuffs. My immediate reaction was "don't think about it too much." 

Even so, yet again, I can't help getting the feeling that there have been some major rewrites or recuts. Was this originally meant to be the finale? Was a different person meant to be the Red Angel?  Was the whole "she is unconscious, you stay here," and the "she asked for Pike, not you" meant to keep characters apart for some valid narrative purpose, or was that the only way to shoehorn a different outcome into some footage that was already partially in the can? Not peddling any conspiracy here, maybe just searching for something to explain the jumpiness beyond "they are just a bunch of well-meaning folks doing the best they can." I still can't wait to see the next episode and any time with Pike is good while we still have him.

Meanwhile, much will be made about how the AI can do some things but not other things...
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 30 March 2019 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"Perpetual Infinity"

(aka "Perpetual Stupidity")

*My one big take home from this episode is I hope we are seeing the reason why holo communicators and holo technology in general went away or stagnated for decades.   It also gives some context for why there is a general distrust of AIs well into the future, why they take great pains to limit their programming and why serious thought is given to terminating AIs who exceed their original parameters (either by accident or design).   It brings a whole other layer to the Doctor's story in VOYAGER -- and why the Federation has a hard time accepting AIs as a 'new life form', ironically.

*They don't explain how Dr. Burnham and the suit were able to travel 50,000 LY using pre-TOS technology.   The suit also has an advanced quantum computing core that has virtually unlimited storage capacity.   I have a feeling what the writers are trying to do... 50K LY depending on the direction would put you well into the Beta Quadrant or very close to or into Gamma or Delta Quadrants.   Some rough math takes Voyager's 70K LY journey along with the ~10K LY gift from Kes and puts the distance to Borg space within the same range as Dr. Burnham's suit is able to travel.

*If the AI (as Leland) has access to all of Dr. Burnham's log entries then it now knows she has a hiding place in the future and a rough idea of where to find it.

*Leland getting infected by nanoprobes is quite similar to the method used by the third onscreen iteration of the Borg (FIRST CONTACT).

*Georgiou mentioning the 'prime' universe was cringeworthy, not just for how stupid the delivery sounded but for how low the writers have stooped to convince us this is still the same universe as TOS.  Show us, don't tell us.  Stop straddling the fence and dangling the carrot that this is somehow going to dovetail nicely into existing STAR TREK.  Just make the show you want to make and give up courting the old fans because you feel you have to.  Let the show find it's own voice rather than trying to talk over the conversations started by other STAR TREK shows.

*In a similar vein Spock's "I like science" comment was really out of place and teeth-gnashingly cringey.  Spock can be a funny character because he's the straight man, not because he's the one making the jokes.  Yes, there are situations where logical Spock tries to say something he thinks is funny but falls flat because he's being too literal, but this really wasn't one of those times.  Someone please send the DISCO writers room a DVD of THE VOYAGE HOME and Seasons 1&2 of TOS for some good examples of how to effectively write funny Spock (and don't bother splurging for the Blu-Ray versions).

*Why did it seem like there's only three crew members aboard the Sec. 31 ship in this episode?   I'm reminded of the spore drive room on DISCO when they need a scene where characters talk about their feelings -- it suddenly ceases to be a functional engineering room and everyone else working there has left.   I guess that's why Tyler didn't take a security team with him to confront Leland.   Yeah, that's not going to get you stabbed...

*So Dr. Burnham manipulated events so DISCO would encounter the sphere and download it's memory -- and now they can't erase the data because it protects itself?   Thanks, Mom.   Now DISCO is permanently infected.

*Mom's a horrible bitch to Michael... then turns around, gets all weepy and tells her "I was proudly watching you when you graduated".  Huh?  (I'm surprised we didn't get "I was watching you finally lose your virginity having kinky sex with a Klingon").   Mom not wanting to see Michael was a stupid plot device designed to inject some artifical drama.   You just knew Michael was going to get down there and talk to her somehow... so why make it difficult?  Drama.

*Stupid plans are stupid for stupid's sake.  Uploading the data that's causing all the trouble into the time travelling suit that has a super advanced computer and unlimited storage and sending it into the future unattended is a horrible idea.   Mom even points out how stupid this plan is and that doesn't stop them (and she knows the suit better than anyone).   I guess we can't expect much from the gang who thought they would get the RA's attention by murdering Michael -- all because they erroneously thought Michael was the RA!

*Isn't it great they found a use for all that meteor dark matter macguffin we picked up in episode 2?


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 30 March 2019 at 10:25am
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 31 March 2019 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

"I could tell you your future but you won't like it"

Having come to really like Pike, I found that line a bit chilling even though we already know his ultimate fate. 


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Alex Prewitt
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Posted: 05 April 2019 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

The newest episode didn't wow me, overall. I cringe every time I hear the words "time crystal." That being said, I think Anson Mount is terrific, and he made me care about Chris Pike. 

Pay careful attention to the sneak preview for next week--you get a brief glimpse of something cool! I was impressed at some of the touches that were shown. Big smile from this TOS fan. 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 05 April 2019 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Yeah, I liked it other than "time crystal."  We couldn't have gone for "temporal resonance crystal" or something?
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 05 April 2019 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

And Pike's vision was absolutely harrowing.  Once again, rather than strip-mining classic Trek, they added new levels, in this case to his heroism.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 05 April 2019 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Agree with all. This episode was touching. And I am rewatching The Menagerie and it is just wonderful to see again in light of the new levels added. And...I am assuming that Tig Notaro's engineer is going to end up being related to McCoy--hangnail and all. 
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Tyler Kloster
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Posted: 05 April 2019 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

This was a wonderful episode....the Pike scene that everyone is raving about got me legitimately choked up. Awesome stuff. Loving Michael and Spock as a team as well. And those glimpses of the Enterprise interiors in next week's episode!!!!

Well done all around, and I wish the show wasn't wrapping up the season in 2 weeks. Alas.

However, I too really dislike the whole "time crystals" thing...doesn't feel very Star Trek-ky at all, more of a straight-up "magic" thing.
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John Harrison
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Posted: 07 April 2019 at 12:10am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Came across as a bad episode of The Black Hole 

I do like the cranky engineer lady and the vision Pike saw was well done.

Sonequa Martin-Green Idk if she's trying  be deliberate or is just going thru the motions but god her acting is nothing more tilt head no expression tilt head become angry tilt head eyes go wide tilt head save the day tilt head solve problem


I am basically just watching Anson Mount's scenes the past three episodes 


Time crystals are the klingon version of Bajoran orbs .... just sad really

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 08 April 2019 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

For folks who don't have All Access and are curious about the Pike scene we're talking about, it's linked below.  Obviously, massive spoilers.

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 12 April 2019 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Oh man.   I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

"Through The Valley Of Shadows"
 
*Episode was ok,  the highlight being those Pike scenes.   Wow.   Can we just have a show about Pike?  Screw this Picard and Discovery stuff.  Just Pike, doing Pikey things.

*I'm with everyone else here, there's a lot of fantasy crap that's crept into STAR TREK as of late.   Magic beans (time crystals), immortal elves (Klingon monks), fairy castles (monasteries), and angels (angels).   Seems like someone's trying to catch a little of the GoT afterglow.   Just create a new fantasy show and stop polluting STAR TREK with this junk, please.

*Control's nanites can do things the Borg could only dream of 100 years in the future, including making it's 'drones' invulnerable and just creeping across the floor like Venom.   Why does it even need Michael if it can do all those things?

*Did Control just pull a James Bond villian mistake and capture Michael just to brag about it's grand plans?  Seriously?

*If Control can commandeer 30+ Starships equipped for covert missions and the humans who inhabit them then does it really need the sphere data?   It can basically wipe out the Federation and all sentient life right now.   No need to wait 500 years so the Federation can have better technology, and for the population of sentient life to exponentially increase.

*I like Reno.   She's a great off-the-cuff character who speaks her mind and doesn't pull her punches.   One of the better characters added to the cast.

-------

"Such Sweet Sorrow".

*aka "Oh FFS Just Get On With It".   

*Seriously, what a f'n waste of a episode and about 10 million dollars of production money.  Scene after scene of people saying goodbye, giving emotional speeches, recording some more goodbyes, and standing around on the bridge looking pretty and looking each other in the eye -- while the big bad enemy is coming!   It felt like someone made Minestrone soup out of a bunch of emotional/fist pump type scenes that were sitting on the cutting room floor.   

*This episode effectively stops the forward narrative momentum the last few episodes had.   They even manage to sideline Leland for an episode.   Boo, hiss.

*I guess this is techinically a modern equivalent to a 'Bottle Show'.   With only 14 episodes this season though you really should need all of them and not sacrifice one or two to save money.   This isn't 14 episodes of content padded out to 26.  When you are burning 12-15 million dollars an episode (depending on the extent of effects) does it really matter that one dud episode ends up costing 8-10 million? 

*I love how Sarek and Amanda are just able to magically show up and then leave in the middle of things so we can have our "I wub U 2" scenes with Michael.  Gah, who writes this shit?  Forget the sphere data, imagine if Leland-Control got ahold of whatever magic travel beans/TARDIS that Sarek has -- he'd be unstoppable.

*Time was all goofy in this episode.  Like, really goofy.   They are somehow able to construct an advanced time travel suit (from melted down bulkheads... seriously?), make it functional, and program it... in under an hour.   The last 10 minutes before Leland arrives seemed to take hours.   Everyone had time to change uniforms, record goodbyes, convince each other to stay with Michael, convince Michael they were going to stay with her, prepare hundreds of shuttles for combat (never mind where these shuttles came from -- the script has a cool scene that needs a hundred shuttles... because it'll  look cool!), and say goodbye to each other for a third time.

*The evacuation walkways.  Now that was kinda cool.   Just like emergency saucer separation features.   It'll never get used again.  ;-)

*The bridge of the Enterprise.   Eh... it seemed a little too bright.   I do get what they were trying to do with the aesthetic (and yes, I do see some hints of the TOS bridge in there) but I think if I had to spend a lot of time there (or heaven forbid, work there) I'd probably go nuts.   Tone it down.   

*Tilly pulls a convenient, powerful (nay-lynchpin) friend -- out of her ass.  It's basically amateur hour in the DISCO writer's room.   Seriously stupid contrived horseshit writing like this should not be happening on a high budget show such as this.

*The Queen sure was an interesting quirky character though.   Seems like she's staying/joining the cast.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 12 April 2019 at 7:15pm
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John Harrison
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Posted: 13 April 2019 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Felt like a filler episode I skipped thru most of it.  

Pike in uniform on his Enterprise cranky engineer lady and the queen were the highlights 

lots of bad writing again lots I do give them credit trying to tie in the short trek ....  Tilly should be way past her diarrhea of the mouth stage 

The Georgiou Pike moment at the transporter what was that?

*******

Pike doing Pikey things is the show I want as well Rob

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 13 April 2019 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

The Georgiou Pike moment at the transporter what was that?

Beats me, it felt like some sort of a fan service or easter egg moment but obviously not intended for this fan.

It sort of sounded like this Ren and Stimpy exchange: 
(and yes, I actually looked up the transcripts to get it right)

 QUOTE:
Ren: [sad] Hey, Stimpy, I have a little confession to make. At night, while you're asleep... [sniffs] I polish my boots with your tongue!

Stimpy: That's okay Ren, I wasn't really asleep.


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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 13 April 2019 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

The additions to Pike's overall story are interesting in some ways and maddening in others.

The 'beeping chair' makes an appearance and is updated to the modern aesthetic but is instantly recognizable.   Given the events of this season you have to wonder if Pike had specifically requested the chair have no onboard AI or even a computer, just simple yes/no communication.

The 'you-can't-escape-your-chosen-fate' stuff rubs me the wrong way though.   Can't quite put my finger on it but it falls into the same fantasy/magic trappings that I think should stay out of STAR TREK.

This is a fictional universe where time travel happens often, usually by accident, and we've seen butterfly effect types of interactions many times.   To say Pike no longer has free will to resist ending up in the chair goes against everything that STAR TREK stands for.   It robs the individual of the power and responsibility to make choices for either themselves (selfishly) or the greater good in the heat of the moment and puts it into the hands of god/fate/bad writers.   It makes Sisko stepping into the shoes of Garbiel Bell something that was bound to happen rather than a matter of duty and personal integrity (not to mention a technical prime directive violation if he didn't do it).  It renders the iteration of history where McCoy saved Edith Keeler completely pointless..

So now what?   Is delta radiation going to be chasing Pike around, FINAL DESTINATION-style if he suddenly gets cold feet in the future about being in the chair?   

Ugh.   Effing magic beans.   Get off my lawn!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 1:55am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I'm going to offer a different take on the snark that has infested this thread. I'm really enjoying this season of DISCOVERY.  Quite a bit.  As a longtime fan of Trek dating back to a time before most commenting here were even born, I've seen every iteration as they've been conceived.  Cartoons. Movies. Sequels. Prequels. Prime vs Kelvin timeline.  I've seen it all.  

Some I love.  Some I hate.  Some I'm indifferent to their existence.  

DISCOVERY, for me, is quickly falling into the "love" category.  

It's not a fluke that the most compelling character to come out of the Star Trek mythos in over 30 years comes in the form of Pike.  The writers are not simultaneously brilliant in their exploration of that character yet dumb where it comes to every single other aspect of the series.  They just aren't. You may not personally like what they've done otherwise, but that doesn't make it "stupid", "moronic" or otherwise "inept". But a quick reading of the last couple of pages of this thread would lead you to believe they were just that: lucky to not only "stumble" upon a character, but write that character really well while simultaneously fucking up everything else.  

What a poor, poor reading of this series.

Jokes here have been made about Sonequa Martin-Green's performance.  Her head nods, twitches and reactions.  Are you seriously forgetting the actor's handbag that William Shatner brought with him to the role of "James T. Kirk"?  Or does he get a pass because, well, Kirk.  

Other mentions about supposed plot contrivances, such as why Ash didn't bring a full compliment of defenders with him when investigating Leland fall flat when you take into account the reality that Ash was working covertly so as not to draw attention to a possible coup. But, hey, don't let that get in the way of a great snarky comment!  It's AWFUL writing, right?  Like, how could they ever?   Unless they set it up and then paid it off later.  

I get it.  It's really easy to slag something than to prop it up.  Easier to tear down than to enjoy it on its own merits.  I could point to many more instances of the interaction here being untruthful to the actual narrative just to appear clever or insightful or otherwise witty with the sole purpose being to get a reaction.  

And it worked.

I reacted.  

Snark away as much as you want with half-witty diatribes about how DISCOVERY doesn't conform to your predisposed narrative about how stories, in general, should be told and about how STAR TREK, in specific, should unfold. Revel in your "witty" repartee about your supposed understanding of key points, characters and plot while regaling us with stories about why we shouldn't enjoy what we do even though we really do despite your condescending objections.  Go on a multi-paragraph rant about what you hate about the most recent episode and sarcastically comment on every little thing you find objectionable to your heart's content.  

I'm here to tell you that there is someone who objects, who thinks it's wrong to assume, and thinks it's incredibly mean-spirited to post bullshit personal opinions in the form of itemized "reviews" as if they were incontrovertible fact. 
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