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Brian Hague
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

It should be noted that Greg's link is a commercial for a computing service in which the products and services of a company are explained at length before the content begins. The dreary p.o.s. narrator starts off with "men are being picked on" whining and "snowflake" charges. That was as far as I cared to go into Greg's precious little echo-chamber this time and officially the last shrill, crybaby link from Greg that I am ever going to follow.

Also, hey, remember in reality when an argument lost merited an acknowledgement from the losing party and didn't simply result in hand-waving and the obnoxious discharge of further, unsupportable charges from the loser? Huh.

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

My understanding is that 1 Corinthians was written to the church of Corinth where Paul was talking about a group of women that were trying to present teachings that were against the doctrine of the church.

Those were the women he was saying to be quiet.

In any event, many of the conversations I have had with church ministers that are against women in leadership get quite interesting when the dichotomy of those same ministers allowing women to teach the Junior Church classes.

But, my example was not really about the church, it was an illustration of how there are many men in power that are threatened by women & feel perfectly ok in treating them like crap to their face. & I feel the whole Mary Sue thing is an extension of that
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Paul’s main concern seems to be with women uncovering their heads in church/temple. This seems a general rule, as does the prohibition on speaking in general.
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


 QUOTE:
The longer they draw this out the more I'm dreading that Ethan Peck isn't going pull this off.

Leonard Nimoy left some impossibly big shoes to fill and I don't think any actor can ever fully measure up. But, based on the few short clips I've seen so far, Peck isn't terrible. My 'wait-and-see' meter is still running on that one.

Given Michael's Vulcan history, I would be very curious to see what relationship (if any) she might have had with her other foster sibling Sybok. While ST:V wasn't very memorable, Sybok was at least interesting enough to have some story potential.


 
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Given Michael's Vulcan history, I would be very curious to see what relationship (if any) she might have had with her other foster sibling Sybok. While ST:V wasn't very memorable, Sybok was at least interesting enough to have some story potential.

ISTR Spock's line in ST:V as "There were many children of Sarek".  Sybok was older than both Spock and Michael and may have already been kicked off planet before Michael even entered the household.   He looks a lot older than Spock in ST:V and is a full-blooded Vulcan to boot.   If you do the math given the canon portrayal of Vulcans aging a lot slower than humans Sybok could easily be an adult while Michael is still a child.   

However, I have a feeling DISCO isn't going to deal with Sybok at all.   He's too.... inconvenient for the story they want to tell with Michael.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Peter Martin wrote:
Carol Danvers has been Ms Marvel for a long time. But being Ms Marvel is not the same as being Captain Marvel. She's been Captain Marvel since 2012 and Greg, youngster that he is, predates that I am sure.

My point stands that she is not how Greg chooses to frame either Rey nor the new female Doctor Who.  The character of Carol Danvers has been a "Marvel" in some way shape or form for four decades and, as James pointed out, a female Captain Marvel has been around for over three decades.  That's my point.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

That link Greg supplied is laughable.  When it uses, as it's basis, the notion that there has never been a "one-dimensional" red shirt in the history of Star Trek, you've just got to laugh.  

Seriously. 

Repeat after me with a straight face: there's never been a one-dimensional red shirt in the history of Star Trek.

Can't do it, can you?

One can only presume that using that tripe of a video as evidence against a series you've never seen can only be about pushing an agenda. As Brian so rightly noted, it's an echo-chamber video keyed into the very real and, quite frankly, dangerous speak that Greg has been publicly espousing on this forum for well over a year.  I try to confront it where ever and whenever I read it, but it's been so pervasive that it could actually become a full-time job.  Be that as it may, I'll continue to try because I think it's just that ludicrous and awful. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I grew weary long ago of the whole "red shirt" thing. Red shirts are usually security guards, soldiers, and in military situations, soldiers tend to get killed.

Anyway, the first dead guy on TOS (broadcast order) was a BLUE shirt. The first red shirt deaths didn't happen until "What are Little Girls Made Of?", the seventh episode broadcast.

Of course, the whole "red shirt" fixation can be paired up with a lot of gripes from ennui-engorged fanboys. (The smooth floors in the mines in "The Devil in the Dark", the miniskirts, Kirk's "womanizing", the "shoddy" special effects and sets, etc, few of which are valid or often even true.)

Griping about red shirts is like watching a WW2 movie and complaining that it's "always" the guys in khaki who get killed.

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Right, I’ve now watched that linked video.

One of the problems with the whole ethos of Mary Sue is that the people espousing it are very, very selective in their memory &/or examples they choose.

This guy is exactly that. He talks of previous Trek in general terms - no one ever gave a complicated explanation that was then followed up with a simplified version. & they asks why such a thing would happen anyway. Personally, I think this shows good all ages writing - a younger audience might appreciate a simplified version - the guy should be celebrating that it is the woman that has to give the dimmed down version (I jest).

Here’s a challenge to all Mary Sue espousers - review an episode without raising that topic. Because the second you raise that topic, I switch off & stop listening to you, you nullify everything else you say because it shows the lens through which you view things. Your lens is tainted, you hate the product because you don’t like the woman, that’s your starting point & everything else follows from there.

Think about this. If you were reading the X-Men when Jean became Phoenix, with this mindset, I think you may have struggled as she became more & more the centre of attention. This may be a bad example as Chris & John saw that was happening & dealt with it - but imaging how you would have felt while in the middle of those stories.

Going back to Captain Marvel, it makes a darn sight more sense for that title to go to Carol Danvers than anyone else. Mar-vell has been dead for over 30 years. I miss him, but I can’t see what the issue is with a female version getting the film.
Oh, right, the issue is she’s a woman. & she will be the centre of attention, the most powerful person in her film.

& that’s just not allowed except for Wonder Woman, right?
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Thank you for your service. I'm sorry you had to sit through that nonsense.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It riles me, it really does. & it is getting into so many things. Gamergate, comicsgate & all the other versions of it. 
I cannot fathom what it is that is getting these males so annoyed with women. I truly pity their partners.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 04 February 2019 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Think about this. If you were reading the X-Men when Jean became Phoenix, with this mindset, I think you may have struggled as she became more & more the centre of attention. This may be a bad example as Chris & John saw that was happening & dealt with it - but imaging how you would have felt while in the middle of those stories.

•••

Just to tweak that a bit, I kept complaining as Chris shifted more and more focus to Phoenix, until Steve Grant one day suggested a solution: make her a villain.

This plan fell victim to Shooter’s Whim of Iron, as right in the middle of our story he decided the actions of villains must have “consequences”.

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