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Topic: IDW’s Upcoming Year 5 TOS Comic Series Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 22 January 2019 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

JB - Were you asked to contribute to this? Seems like it's right in your wheelhouse.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01/22/greg-hildebrandt-com ic-star-trek-the-original-series-final-fifth-year/
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 January 2019 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Nope. First I’ve heard of this, in fact.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 22 January 2019 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I haven’t followed IDW’s TREK comics too closely (aside from our host’s, of course), but I was surprised to read that this is the first series set during the five-year mission—aside from JB’s work and crossovers with other properties—since Dorothy Fontana’s YEAR FOUR mini-series...a decade ago!
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 23 January 2019 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Well IDW did do Star Trek year four about ten years ago so it is not surprising to see this, just that they are rather late with it.

I wonder if they will their own Mission's End mini series into account which is suppose to be the final IDW year five story.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 23 January 2019 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

When it comes to authentic feeling Trek fan-fiction, is there anything close to
New Visions?

Seriously asking. Everything I've dipped into falls far short of that mark,
usually within the first moments of the story.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 23 January 2019 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

There is honestly some good classic Star Trek story telling outside New Visions but from what I recall from IDW's other TOS stuff it didn't exactly match up to that.

I found Year 4, Year 4 The Enterprise Experiment, Mission's End, and Burden of Knowledge not really that good.
And the same goes for a lot of other IDW Star Trek comics.

Byrne basically saved it for me after having been so disappointed with various TNG mini series and crossovers before they focused mostly on Star Trek 2009.

After the last issue of New Visions I have only bought Waypoint.

I did not care for the TNG Mirror Universe mini series and I also have no interest in the upcoming Q Conflict as I don't find the writing team very stellar on it.

Right now the only upcoming Star Trek comic I certainly want to read is Star Trek TNG 20/20.

Year 5, well I will go through it when I see it but I don't have high expectations of it anymore, based on my prior experience with IDW's Star Trek comics.
The best non Byrne mini series IMO remain Captain's Log, Alien Spotlight 1 and 2 (there are some clunkers such as the Borg one), New Frontier (fan of the books), and Waypoint had some fun stories.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 23 January 2019 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Thank you, Marten.

I am reminded of Lord of the Rings in that, I was able to enjoy various fantasy
novels until I read Lord of the Rings. But after that, nothing could satisfy me
and I read less and less fantasy.

I am gathering that "New Visions" is the Lord of the Rings of Trek fan fiction
for me.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 23 January 2019 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

When it comes to authentic feeling Trek fan-fiction, is there anything close to 
New Visions?

Seriously asking. Everything I've dipped into falls far short of that mark, 
usually within the first moments of the story.
+++++++++

I’ve read a good number of TOS comics, and nothing else comes close. Not to denigrate those other works, of course. Plenty of good and fun stuff out there, but a lot of it has fannish tendencies, or skews too far toward comic book tropes rather than STAR TREK tropes. 

NEW VISIONS nails it. And it’s not just the use of actual imagery from the show. The characters’ “voices”, the proper usage of the terminology/technology, the clever “deep cut” references/jokes, and the overall style are just spot-on. 

John Byrne is a lovably mad genius who is joyfully obsessed with that universe. Only someone so devoted and obsessed—and, most importantly, obsessed with being true to what we saw on the show—could have pulled it off so well! 
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 24 January 2019 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I’ve read a good number of TOS comics, and nothing else comes close. Not to denigrate those other works, of course. Plenty of good and fun stuff out there, but a lot of it has fannish tendencies, or skews too far toward comic book tropes rather than STAR TREK tropes.

* * * * * *

I do think Marvel's Star Trek Early Voyages, Star Trek Unlimited, Star Trek Untold Voyages, and Wildstorm's Star Trek "All of Me" and Star Trek "Enter the wolves" (if you don't mind a DSN reference, no worry there is no time travel) if you would like something more scratch your original series interests.

But like Greg Kirkman points out, a lot of the comics by previous publishers don't get a lot of Trekisms right in order to feel authentic Star Trek or they are not very good as stories on their own, the main criticism that they indeed read to much like a comic. (yes I know a comic is suppose to read like a comic but in this case Kirk and the crew acting too much like comic characters)

So I don't really know what to recommend of the DC era.


I am really disappointed how IDW has handled 24th century Star Trek so far, especially because TNG, DSN, and VGR were the series that got me into Trek in the first place.

A couple of forgettable mini series including two with the Borg that should have appealed to me as a Borg fan but which I would rather forget about, that prologue to Star Trek 2009, and now the Mirror Universe mini series which I starting to detest as it is just an excuse for writers now to open the bag of clichés that come with it.

One thing I noticed with the TNG mini series outside a few that had a long running arc most of the stories could have been pretty much stand alone and trying to tie them all together some way at the end feels rather pointless. The same happened with Burden of Knowledge.
IDW might better have considered doing an ongoing Original Series and TNG series comic like they did for Star Trek 2009.

Now that IDW's honeymoon with that spin off is over (and I don't know how Discovery will turn out for them, the writer from Star Trek 2009 ongoing is on that and I find him pis poor) they seem to try to get back to the Original Series and TNG but I am not sure that they can, at least for me.
The artists are in general okay to good but they really need some better writers, ones that don't stick to just the tropes and recycling popular plot concepts.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 January 2019 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

So I don't really know what to recommend of the DC era.
+++++++++++

The Gold Key stuff is...not particularly faithful to the source material.

The initial Marvel run (post-TMP) has a few good stories, but the book was hamstrung by the requirement that they only use characters and concepts from TMP, and nothing from TOS.

I'm fond of the first few years of DC's initial series (spanning the time-period of the "Genesis trilogy" of TREK movies). Peter David's run at the end of the first volume is entertaining, but full of his usual meta-jokes and "look at how clever I am" writing. Overall, Vol. 1 is pretty darn solid, if erratic.

Haven't gotten around to reading Vol. 2, yet.

I also enjoyed EARLY VOYAGES and UNTOLD VOYAGES from Marvel.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 24 January 2019 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

The initial Marvel run (post-TMP) has a few good stories, but the book was hamstrung by the requirement that they only use characters and concepts from TMP, and nothing from TOS.

* * * * *

I read those, there were a couple of good issues but also some really silly or dumb ones, and I thought it was poor on Paramount's part that Marvel writers could not use the original series for material.
The Motion(less) Picture did not offer that much but the writers could perhaps have gone for more new science fiction ideas.

* * * * *

I'm fond of the first few years of DC's initial series (spanning the time-period of the "Genesis trilogy" of TREK movies). Peter David's run at the end of the first volume is entertaining, but full of his usual meta-jokes and "look at how clever I am" writing. Overall, Vol. 1 is pretty darn solid, if erratic.

* * * * *

Yes, some of the stories were interesting but really Peter David style Trek like you said (which some will like and others will loathe)
That is why I also found it a bit difficult to recommend the start of the second original run.

There were some elements in it I liked and PAD set up some potential plot elements before he left the series due to disagreements with Paramount I think.

Thing is, there will be elements in this that people really feel is very untrek like. Nice in a format of a comic but nothing you would ever put on the screen, well in the past at least because I am not sure about today.

It also seemed along with some of PAD's early Trek stuff to be a prototype for his later New Frontier series, or he has a big tendency of repeating his plot concepts, something I did catch him on in New Frontier as well.

Okay I am not trying to turn this into a "What I like/dislike about PAD's Star Trek" thread.


Before I forget, what did you think of the Newspaper comic?

Main problem probably with that one is how stretched out the stories were because the story wasn't really allowed to progress in the weekday entries and only the weekends.


All and all despite so many Star Trek comics that have been released over the decades so few have actually come close of feeling like a continuation/expansion of the series or franchise (same goes with the books) and I am not sure if that will ever change in the future.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 January 2019 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Before I forget, what did you think of the Newspaper comic?
+++++++

Have yet to read it. Saw Vol. 1 of the hardcover collection cheap at a convention, last year, but passed on it. One of these days, I’ll snag both books, if the price is right.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 January 2019 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

This is good read, too:

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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 January 2019 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

On the matter of the character “voices,” many times it felt as if I was taking dictation. The characters were speaking their lines and I was just writing down what they said.

An illusion, of course, but I really know I’m working on a full head of steam when that happens!

(There’s a legend of Truman Capote being asked if he had really taken twenty-four hours to come up with a single word. “Yes,” he reportedly said. “But it was the right word!” I’ve not reached that level, but there were many times I found myself stopping to consider whether a particular character would use a particular word. Proof it’s not really dictation.”)

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 25 January 2019 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

It’s a subtle thing, but it’s vitally important. Without having actors (and their voices) to literally bring characters to life, the careful selection of words and speech patterns for characters is what brings them to “life” on the printed page. I often think of how Stan Lee did this in books like FANTASTIC FOUR. Giving the characters distinctive speech patterns and specific types of interactions with each other is a key part of what made them so memorable.

And so it was with TOS. If you were handed a page of a conversation without being told who the speakers were, you could pretty quickly determine if it was Kirk talking to Scotty, McCoy talking to Spock, etc. Getting those “voices” (and even accents!) right on the printed page goes a very long way to making up for the lack of the actors’ presence.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 January 2019 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Initially I caught some flak for Chekov’s accent. I dismissed it, guessing I’d have been equally lambasted—probably by the same people!—if I didn’t essay an attempt at faux Russian.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 25 January 2019 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I totally get how troublesome the accents would be.

If you veer too much into it, it can easily come across as cartoonish (as many TREK comics and novels have). If you go with full-on proper English for their dialogue ("Captain" instead of "Keptin", etc.), then it just...doesn't...sound...right.

I think the trick is remembering that Doohan didn't ALWAYS lay on the Scot-speak, and so one must carefully pepper in the "ach"s and "lassies" and whatnot when writing Scotty's dialogue. Pepper in those distinctive verbal tics when appropriate, but not every single time the character speaks.

Less so with Koenig, since he stuck to the thicker accent more consistently than Doohan. Lots and lots of "v"s swapped for "w"s, etc.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 26 January 2019 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Prior to New Visions, the only Trek comics I had liked were the early DC issues - I thought Mike W Barr did a good job with what he had.

New Visions is clearly the gold standard though.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 January 2019 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

...”v”s swapped for “w”s...

•••

And the other way around! “Ve” for “we”, but also (famously) “wessels” for “vessels”.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 January 2019 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yc6OeFmcJ0g
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Sam Karns
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Posted: 27 January 2019 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Mr. Byrne, any chance you would consider returning pencil duties for a future Star Trek project?  Hopefully Captain April and the crew of the Starship Enterprise?  

Altho the Captain's Log is part of the brand, I thought it was interesting in The Cage there wasn't one.  I believe Trek stories can be told without a log entry, and I liked to think the log entries were an evolution and not from the beginning (The retroactivity done on ST:ENT).  

Thoughts, Sir?
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