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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 17 January 2019 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The whole "Stolen time/memories, changed history, heroes vanished" storyline would be fine if it was already finished, which would mean that DOOMSDAY CLOCK (which, to be honest, I'm enjoying) was already over and done with some months ago.
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Valmor J. Pedretti
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I haven't bought ongoing comics since 2006 I think. I made an exception a few years ago when I had a friend in the US buying JB's Trio for me.

A mixture of lack of interest and "this has become too expensive" is my main reason. I do miss the feeling, tho. I'd love to come back to it but haven't found anything that caught my interest and those constant reboots really help me staying away.

The closest thing I have now of that old feeling are the Marvel movies.

I still buy comics, but mostly alternative/creator owned ones or Marvel/DC in collected form.
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Dale E Ingram
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I still buy and read present-day comics.

I was always more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, but DC's Rebirth and all of their various Crises since have just broken any connection I had to their characters. To me it seemed like if these are different characters in a different universe, then the stories of the characters I enjoyed and followed all those years were over. It was kind of liberating.

I've sampled DC at times since, but haven't been able to really connect with anything they've published since Rebirth.

On the Marvel side, the only thing that managed to break my then 30 year long string of X-Men readership was Brian Bendis' "revamp" of the X-Books in 2013, and the subsequent bad stories that he told after the revamp. The only thing that managed to break my then 24 year long string of Avengers readership was Brian Bendis' "revamp" of the Avengers books in 2004, and the subsequent bad stories that he told after that revamp. Again, after he left, I tried the books out at a random point not necessarily connected to a reboot and was able to return and enjoy the series again.

And I'm not saying that to bash Brian Bendis, I have liked some books he's done. Particularly Alias, and Powers, up to a point.

I think that once that connection has been broken, even if it is re-established, it's more tenuous. So in the case of the Avengers, I come back and read for a time, but if my interest wanes or I feel I'm spending too much on comics, I'll drop the book because I don't feel as invested in the characters. I think that's the long-term damage of these crises and reboots, is that the connection between reader and story is being continually broken for some, so when the next one comes, it's not the same. There's a boost for these reboots when lapsed fans sample the book, but over time the circulation drops to a lower level than before because they couldn't get the lapsed fans to stick around.

The function of these Crises, Reboots and Events seems to be to serve a Marketing concern, and to give the companies' Marketing depts something to promote, moreso than to give the fans a story for the ages. I'm sure the creators try to give us a good story, but they're missing the long term damage that comes from starting over every six months to a year.

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I gave up the weekly/monthly collecting of comics more than a decade ago.  There are still some exceptions, I will buy ANYTHING and EVERYTHING JB writes or draws or George Perez draws for example, and there are a VERY few others, but that's about it.  I can't tell you how much I miss the comic fare of the 1980's (my Golden Age) and the excitement of "NEW COMICS day" and running to the comic shop after school or work, but alas, those days are long gone.

I still follow the comics of today through the internet/social media, friends who still collect, etc. and trade paperbacks of titles I just will NEVER EVER give up and I just can't express my disdain for what passes for comic book story and art nowadays.  The near-endless story arcs that drag on and convey little or nothing but filler for the trade paperbacks - the anime/manga inspired "coloring book" style art with attendant garish coloring and the unending stream of now anti-climactic EVENTS --- one supplanting/replacing/overriding the other.

Some people say that comics have become nothing but glorified "fanzines" - but I remember REAL fanzines - and they at least had a certain enthusiasm and charm, modern comics cannot lay claim to either.

Marc


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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

It's taken forever, but I think there are probably more well-written Marvel comics right now than there have been since...1999? Definitely prior to the Jemas/Quesada era. 

The fact that Bendis is no longer at Marvel...I don't think it's a coincidence.
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Dale E Ingram
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

There's definitely been a marked improvement in quality at Marvel over the last year since Bendis left Marvel for DC. I just don't think he's suited for superhero comics work. I think also CB Cebulski's influence over the editorial direction, and Jordan White's taking over editorial oversight on the X-Men books have contributed as well.

And for the most part, the Marvel universe turn around happened without a crisis or a reboot.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Here's a sign of the horrible problems in the comics (especially DC) right now:

Vinny V: "Why bother getting involved in a story if it's just going to be completely nullified in a few years?"

James W: "...some comics, such as Batman, have included the new 52 era into their continuity, some have not."

Marc B: " I will buy ANYTHING and EVERYTHING JB writes or draws or George Perez draws "

At one point, I bought comics because of the characters - not because of the continuity or the creators. "It's Justice League! It's Fantastic Four! Yay!" And I was pretty confident that DC and Marvel would keep the level of art and story so good that it was worth it.

Then the sea change came, and creators started mattering and extended storylines started mattering. That's fine, provided that other books keep up the quality too. I think Alan Moore or Frank Miller got a hell of a lot more attention than Curt Swan, but that was okay - I KNEW Curt Swan would remain excellent anyhow.

And then Crisis on Infinite Earths. We can discuss it further under other cover, but with respect to others's comments as above, it started a trend of "this story has lasted through the previous crisis" or "why bother reading if the next crisis is just going to change everything again?"

The stories now matter LESS than the Continuity! In the Silver Age, I grant you that there were some crazy stories*, but they just didn't need to be revisited ever again. Steve Rogers brother and middle name... Dr. Krylo, and Jor-El and Lara in suspended animation in a capsule orbiting Earth... ah, brush it off.

*Even if we leave out the Bob Haney stories. :)

But now, readers are tracking stories through each crisis or "upheaval". So those really need to be as top notch as anything the companies have ever published. And I don't think the current crop of creators are good enough to do it.

Does Superman have a son or not? Is Wonder Woman's father really Zeus or not? And will that answer be the same in two years? That these questions even have meaning is the unsolvable problem before DC and Marvel.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

...readers are tracking stories...

•••

A problem in itself. Comics were not invented with literary permanence in mind. They were meant to be disposable, read until they were worn out, then forgotten as the readers got older and moved on. For decades they thrived like that.

Then came what Julie Schwartz called “the archeologists”. The ones who wanted to document—and cling to—every comma. (I cannot point too stern a finger, here. I began as such a fan, and it took me long years to recognize the error of my ways.)

Out of this springs CRISIS, and out of creative bankruptcy springs the many returns to that well.

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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

And for the most part, the Marvel universe turn around happened without a crisis or a reboot.

***

For a long time I thought Marvel was so screwed up that a fix would be impossible without a reboot. 

I guess I was wrong. All it takes is good writers and sufficient distance (in years) from the crap stories.

Fixing the X-Men corner of Marvel is still taking too long. Of course, I eventually came to the conclusion that all things mutant started going off the rails shortly after JB was no-longer co-plotter of UNCANNY X-MEN. (Hell, even with the ending of "Days of Future Past"!)

I don't want to bash Chris Claremont but I think that Marvel, and superhero comics in general, would've been better served had he written a different title for 16 years. 
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Derek Rogers
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I agree that rebooting the whole universe every few years because of creative stagnation or poor sales or whatever is not the best way to handle your characters. That being said, I think the approach now is that everything is canon. It all "happened". Bendis brought back the Connor Kent Superboy, The Wonder Twins, Dial H for Hero, and has hinted that the Legion will also be returning (although which version, who knows) so that means that anybody can, any iteration/version - and I think that's kind of cool. So we might see the Pre-Crisis Supergirl come back or whatever. The door is open again.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Then came what Julie Schwartz called “the archeologists”. The ones who wanted to document—and cling to—every comma. (I cannot point too stern a finger, here. I began as such a fan, and it took me long years to recognize the error of my ways.)

Out of this springs CRISIS, and out of creative bankruptcy springs the many returns to that well.
++++++++++++

I don't quite see it as an "either/or" situation, though. A lot of great stories and moments have been tied into previous continuity, after all.

The trick, I think, is being very, very selective with the use of such "deep cuts", and always writing in a way which is accessible, and not purely for navel-gazing (or rewriting old stories and characters).
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Derek,

With respect, "the door is open again" ... until next year.

Marc
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