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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 1
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Apparently, the two comic talents disagree on the matter:
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Jim Petersman
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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First, I'm not sure how anyone can be certain about things that happened 40+ years ago. I can't tell you the number of times I've realized that I juxtaposed memories that were only half as old.Second, my understanding of the Marvel method was that the penciller and writer co-plotted the story before any art was begun. If that's the case (and I may very well be wrong), then wouldn't they both be "creators" of the storyline? |
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Mike Norris
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 3
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Well, Roy started the ball rolling when Sal Buscema was the artist, setting a lot of plot elements in motion three or four issues before Neal joined the team. I've a feeling the "Journey to the Center of the Vision" was mostly Neal. I'm sure he contributed a few things to the other issues as well.
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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Roy does credit Neal for that bit with Ant-Man and the Vision in his response.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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I have no thoughts on this, tho I have long been convinced the “clothes make the man” reveal in X-MEN was all Neal’s. The way Roy scripted certain earlier pages seem to me to indicate he had no idea what was coming. Roy has disputed this.
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Jason Larouse
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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In the Roy Thomas article (the second link) Neal Adams (or someone going by his name) is arguing with people in the comments.
Edit; He's arguing in the comments in the first article too.
Edited by Jason Larouse on 16 December 2018 at 9:24pm
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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Neal’s definition of the Marvel Method wasn’t entirely accurate, tho.
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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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I don't know if Roy's and Neal's accounts are really at odds with each other. I think it comes down to different definitions of "writing" in a collaborative medium. Even if Neal was totally in charge of the four issues he drew, Roy still started the story and finished it with other artists--five other issues Neal had no say in.
The benefits of the "Marvel Method" are intertwined with the drawbacks. If Stan Lee wrote a one-page plot and gave it to Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko to flesh out over 20+ pages, who wrote the story? In movies and books, you sometimes have writing partnerships where two writers sit in a room and throw ideas and dialogue back and forth and type it right there. In comics, the collaboration is more consecutive rather than concurrent.
I love Jack and Neal, but to all the artists who claim "I wrote that!" after the fact and want to diminish what Stan or Roy Thomas brought to the collaboration, we can always look at the comics the artists did solo and say "Uh, yeah, that's not as good."
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Robert Bradley
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | 9
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Unfortunately stories weren't credited as -
"Editor/Plotter(s)/Penciller/Scripter/Inker/Letterer/Coloris t"
Because that's the only way some of these arguments would be settled, and still there would be disagreements.
There were early exceptions to the basic Writer/Artist credits as Ditko got plotting credits in THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and Lee and Kirby were eventually credited more as collaborators in FANTASTIC FOUR.
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Shane Matlock
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| Posted: 16 December 2018 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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Look at the issues before and after Neal and you'll see how much Neal brought to the table beyond just the art. When he left Roy Thomas fell back on his golden age hero obsession and rushed the story to conclusion. The Marvel Method of doing comics really contributes to the ambiguity of who wrote/created what. But even if the writer did the plot and the script, the artist is still the "director" of the story. But in this case, with Neal plotting and drawing his issues, doing everything other than the dialogue, he's more of the writer than the writer who is just scripting is. Which isn't to say the comics would be half as good without the dialogue. Neal is quick to praise Roy's dialogue on his issues. Anyway, I like how JB always tried to put the artist's name first in the credits and sometimes took a scripter credit.
Edited by Shane Matlock on 16 December 2018 at 10:54pm
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James Woodcock
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| Posted: 17 December 2018 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 11
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Why in the past were scripters writers and artists who plot not credited as writers?
I think if that would have been the case, a lot of this confusion would have been removed. At the very least, there should have been co-plot credit given.
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Jason Larouse
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| Posted: 17 December 2018 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 12
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Why in the past were scripters writers and artists who plot not credited as writers?
I think if that would have been the case, a lot of this confusion would have been removed. At the very least, there should have been co-plot credit given.
****
They started crediting Ditko as plotter in the later Spider-Man issues and Kirby as co-plotter on the later FF issues. Neal Adams gets a "plot assist" credit on one of the Kree-Skrull War issues. Seems inconsistent to me.
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