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Topic: Avengers: Endgame ~ SPOILERS start Pg 7 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

You have repeatedly accused me of thinking feminism is bad and that simply isn't true.

In the post right above mine you cite the supposed Marvel decision of making Captain Marvel a "big feminist movie" as being the source of this (non existent) "anti-male and political feminism" that you dislike in this movies. Ergo, you dislike feminism as a concept or simply don't understand what it actually is.

That article you cited, while biased, doesn't say absolutely anything about the film being anti-male or political (except if you think a woman protagonist with great superpowers is somehow political). 

Before you make the "I like Wonder Woman and Black Widow" defense (known in other circles as the "I have a black/gay/other minority friend" defense) let me remind you again your previous statement that choosing an actress that is a feminist activist was somehow a problem for you (or for "the fans", projection again).

So, again, the "problem" is pretty clear. It's not rocket science. And nobody is "accusing" you of anything, you're doing that to yourself.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Well, it is political, it has alienated plenty of men and it has emasculated many of the male characters so I don't agree with you at all.

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This is the feminism of CAPTAIN MARVEL:

- Carol encountered some obstacles due to her gender from some men. She overcame them without blaming sexism, misogyny, or men.
- Carol declared that she didn't need to prove herself to a man, that man being Yon-Rogg.

Please break down how any of this is political, alienating, or emasculating to any rational man.
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:21am | IP Logged | 3 post reply


Wow, this discussion sure bogged down.  Both of the two movies' "all the women coincidentally end up in the same spot" scenes were cheesy and brought me out of their respective movie for a bit, but they weren't offensive.  Just dumb.  Those characters all did so many other really cool things that were essential to victory, why strain credulity by having them suddenly end up together in a melee involving tens of thousands combatants? 

All that said the main thing that I've disliked about both Infinity War and Endgame is the re-writing of Thanos' motivations.  In the end credits scene of Avengers, the Chitauri guy comes up to Thanos and says that to attack the Earth is to court Death and Thanos grins.  Why wasn't he still courting Death?  He wants to bring balance to the force, I mean, the universe with his snap...why not his love for Death?  That was the most interesting part of the original Thanos Quest/Infinity Gauntlet/War comics.  Do they not have the rights to the Marvel version of Death?




Edited by Jozef Brandt on 12 May 2019 at 2:21am
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

My guess regarding Thanos's motives (and it is just a guess) is that his Cosmic-level necrophelia did not make him sympathetic enough to audiences or an interesting enough character to the writers. Making him a deluded do-gooder, looking to see that everyone left alive enjoys a comfortable existence filled with plenty after he's killed everyone else...? That just set better with them. He could talk about that without seeming unduly creepy or perverse. 

Another consideration in the overall timeline may have been their realization that Thor: Ragnarok would have immediately preceded their big Thanos film, and having two separate anthropomorphized female versions of Death, one right after the other, might have been clumsy.

To that end, they made Hela less a regal, dispassionate personification of Death and more a simple, scenery-chomping vengeful sibling, and altered Thanos's plan so that he could still discuss his intentions without seeming like a guy with a death fetish.

A friend pointed out that the film-makers nevertheless retained the basic visual of Starlin's Death in the Red Skull, now transformed into the guardian of the Soul Stone on Vormir.

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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I really wish a mod would step in and shut down the political bs that has crept into this thread.




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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It's tiresome, but not off topic. Been meaning to post my thoughts here on the film for a few days. Saw it last Tuesday. In a nutshell, I thought it was not bad. Didn't seem long even with that huge running time, but I did think Infinity War did a better job in basically every department.

Really enjoyed the contrasting interactions in Infinity War (e.g. Iron Man and Dr Strange; Thor and the Guardians) and the way the story zipped along. Contrast the lengthy intro to this film (which, like the film as whole was, as I said, not bad) with the way Dr Strange appears in the first film to recruit Iron Man and how they and Spidey get pulled into an intergalactic adventure.

As others have mentioned, bit weird to have Captain Marvel feature so little and the character still seems to suffer here, as I thought in her own movie, with being over-powered and under-written.

Masks seem like an outrage to be torn off at the earliest opportunity,. Glad that Cap got to wear his mask towards the end at least for a little bit.

Pissed me off that basic ground rules got broken, prime amongst these that Cap's shield cannot be broken. Personally, I would prefer that only Thor can lift his hammer. That said, could have happily have accepted Cap wielding it in a pinch, but didn't like that Cap seemed to use it just as effectivley as Thor (or even more so) or that Thor chose to bugger off with Stormbreaker and not Mjolnir.

Thor going off with the Guardians felt oddly right and I look forward to seeing further adventures with these.

The end battle with every mofo felt like overkill. They really need to ditch the arachna-legged suit for Spider-Man. Putting Pepper in an Iron Man suit does not work and I wish they hadn't done it.

Hulk was truly poorly served by both Infiinty War and this film.

Chris Hemsworth has a real comedy gift and makes Thor work not matter what curves they throw him, but the character really has not been written with much consistency from film to film. Still funny though, and he still just about pulled it off.

All in all, it creaked more under its weight than Infinity War even with fewer core characters, but ultimately left me feeling positive about the whole kaboodle. And, yes, it was damn sad!

  
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Extra comment: was really hoping it was Hawkeye that bit the bullet rather than Black Widow. His mass-murdering ways seemed to be swept under the carpet eventually, which I didn't like. If they wanted to go there, it made sense for him to be the one to pay a price. Also ridiculous that his daughter got called Hawkeye more times than him in the movie.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Final thoughts (I think!):

Great to see the proper Ant-Man helmet back in 1970; shame they didn't go with that or something more similar for the actual helmet. Paul Rudd, though not really bang on with the comic version, does work well and in some ways is the glue of this movie. He feels like a Marvel guy.

I would have preferred Strange's plan to have been a bit less tenuous. Like he could have actually guided things. Seems a long stretch for everyone to make the choices they did and for it all to work out. It's one thing to see this unlikely strand and go along with one element that sets it in motion, entirely another to not be allowed to guide things to avoid the 13-odd million other outcomes. Would have preferred it to have been a bit more wily.

Good to see Tilda Swinton again. For some reason, it doesn't irk me to have her character so different to the source. Perhaps because I had no strong connection to the Ancient One as a reader (well before my time) and because she is so damn good in the role. The delivery is so crisp and thoughtful.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 13 May 2019 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

They're still doing the Black Widow movie, from what I've heard.

Unless Natasha doesn't stay dead, I don't see the point. If its a flashback/prequel movie, I probably won't see it until it hits Blu-Ray/DVD.
If its an origin story, I may not see it at all.



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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 13 May 2019 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

BLACK WIDOW is supposed to be set in 2006. 
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I wonder if they will actually call her Black Widow in the movie. Have any of the movies ever actually referred to her as such? ENDGAME sure didn't.

Edited by Vinny Valenti on 14 May 2019 at 8:09am
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 12 post reply



I saw this for the first time over the weekend - I usually see the Marvel movies opening weekend, but work had other plans for me!  I canít believe I managed to avoid spoilers, but I am glad I did!

At times emotional and exciting, this was quite an experience.  I watched INFINITY WAR just before and then caught an IMAX show.  A big benefit to this screening was that I had avoided the new SPIDER-MAN trailer, which they showed after the film. 

Itís the end of an era, and yet I love the seeds they have planted to continue the universe. 




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