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Topic: Avengers: Endgame ~ SPOILERS start Pg 7 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 27 April 2019 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The sad thing is, what made Marvel movies great and much better than DC movies, was totally abandoned in these last two movies.  Gone is the fun.  It's DC, only darker.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 3:25am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Thor being in his state of IMMENSE GUILT and utter anguish over what happened in Infinity War drove him to his downward spiral.  

Imagine how you’d feel.

Had had he not been so ARROGANT (the very thing that Odin banished him for) and killed Thanos instantly instead of striking him so he could gloat to his face about having his vengeance....trillions...upon trillions of people would still be alive.

He lost his mother.

He lost Odin.

He lost Jane.

He lost Heimdahl.

He lost ASGARD.

He lost Sif, Volstagg, Hogan and Fandrall

He found a sister that murdered hundreds if not thousands of fellow Asgardians and then lost her too.

He lost Mljonir.

I’d argue no other main character in the MCU had suffered as much personal tragedy as Thor.  For the first time in his 1500 year of WINNING damn near everything....he was losing it all piece by piece.  

 What he did to Thanos in the opening act of ENDGAME was brutal and inevitable.  And with that selfish act he lost HOPE.  Because they all thought Thanos was the key to restoring everything.

And he finally fucking cracked.  But he was never not worthy.  Mjolnir proved that.

Brilliant.




Edited by David Allen Perrin on 28 April 2019 at 3:27am
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 4:26am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

[quote=Michael Roberts]What do you mean? Why would have the snap sent Thanos back to his time? The snap would have done what Tony wanted it to do, which was kill Thanos and co. It seemed to me that Tony pulled the same move that Thanos did, except solely directed at Thanos and his army instead of half the universe. {/quote]

I guess I could have phrased that better:

They kept saying they couldn't change history - they could grab the stones to reintegrate everybody, but then they needed to put everything back where they found it all the while knowing that all of the terrible stuff that happened in the interim will still happen.

By the same logic, they needed to put time travelling Thanos and his crew back where they came from to avoid the same "messing with history" situation. Since Iron Man opted for mass execution instead, what does that mean for everything Thanos and co. had done for the last however many years?

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John Harrison
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 4:29am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

But he was never not worthy. 

*******

His worth was reinstated after visiting mom... thus the calling of the hammer scene 

Five years being drunk playing videos games not being a king not leading his people not taking care of himself he wasn't a man much less worthy 





Edited by John Harrison on 28 April 2019 at 4:30am
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 4:42am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

That Namor reference made me smile.....
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
They kept saying they couldn't change history - they could grab the stones to reintegrate everybody, but then they needed to put everything back where they found it all the while knowing that all of the terrible stuff that happened in the interim will still happen.

By the same logic, they needed to put time travelling Thanos and his crew back where they came from to avoid the same "messing with history" situation. Since Iron Man opted for mass execution instead, what does that mean for everything Thanos and co. had done for the last however many years?

I think you misunderstood the point of all that. They could not change history. Putting the stones back or not putting them back made no difference to history. It was to avoid the alternate realities that they created from getting all fucked up by the imbalance of not having all six Infinity Stones.

With Iron Man's execution, there's one alternate reality free from Thanos and his army (and also missing Nebula and Gamora). That has no effect on the history of the Avengers' reality where the snap happened.

With regard to Captain America, he either 1) made sure that he and Peggy did nothing to alter known history, or 2) lived out his life in an alternate timeline and turned his TimeGPS back on to get back to his original timeline after he lived out his life.

I prefer the latter and will assume that is what happened until someone says otherwise.


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Brian Miller
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I think Micheal’s second point makes sense. And he told Bucky what he was going to do. Otherwise, why would Bucky tell him “I’m gonna miss you.” as he climbing the platform for a five second trip. Bucky also knew he was going to give the shield to the Falcon. 

It was quite interesting that all the heroes that are focused on in their little after-funeral scenes all have future appearances coming. Either on Disney+ or on the big screen. 
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I saw it last night and while being a satisfying ending to what Infinity War started, it wasn't quite the movie I was hoping for. Keeping in mind that Captain America is my all-time favorite Marvel character, I would have preferred that he sacrifice himself and allow Tony Stark to retire to his family. Black Panther could have been tasked with returning the stones. Count me in as someone still trying to figure out why there's not another Captain America running around out there with Steve doing what he'd did.

But this movie needed this ending because of both actors contracts. Sure, they could have gone a different route and replaced Evans and Downey but popular culture has blurred the lines so much with these actors (Evans is often called "Captain America" in news stories featuring him, Tony Stark and Thor's personalities have developed into RJD and Hemsworth's personalities not to mention Make A Wish appearances and even political ads) that they're pretty much irreplaceable. 

I enjoyed the movie and understand that much of it was a love letter to the original Avengers but going forward I hope that it remains that the Falcon is using Cap's shield because I prefer Sam Wilson as the first Falcon and not the second Captain America. We know that it all seems well with Black Panther, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Ant Man and the Wasp going forward. Thor with the Guardians is interesting but I'd like to see the restoration of Asgard and the Rainbow Bridge at some point. With everything destroyed, are the Avengers finished? Hawkeye does have a Punisher-like body count that he's responsible for. The Scarlet Witch has more stories to tell. 

It's pretty exciting to see the next phase has to offer. I don't doubt that Marvel Studios has the ability to do it again because honestly, there was a lot of doubt that they could do it the first time. I still remember Iron Man "was too B-List", Captain America "can't make it in an international market", "No way can they do an Avengers movie". Yet here we are.



Edited by Shawn Kane on 28 April 2019 at 7:22am
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
I think you misunderstood the point of all that. They could not change history. Putting the stones back or not putting them back made no difference to history. It was to avoid the alternate realities that they created from getting all fucked up by the imbalance of not having all six Infinity Stones.


The sequence between the Hulk and the Ancient One had her showing the result of him taking the stone - one reality becomes two. He says they'll bring the stone back right when they got it and the two lines became one again. How do we get from there to "the alternate realities they created?"
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

It's the arbitrary rules that aggravate me about the writing.  They're the one's who opened the Pandora's box with the God Glove.  It makes absolutely no sense that the glove can't be used to make everything exactly how the wearer wants it.

Tony's going to wish away Thanos and all of his baddies but he isn't going to wish for himself to stay alive and with his family?  Stark may not be Loki in terms of being conniving but that final wish shows a real lack of thought, much less creativity.

Plus, what does it say about all the other heroes?  The Gauntlet's just sitting there and not one of them says "fuck it" I'm bringing Tony back?  Or any of the many other loved ones who've been killed along the way?  

Or, why just murder Thanos and Co.?  Thanos himself gave the answer when he talked about erasing the Avengers from existence where no would remember.  Why he didn't do that in the first place seems like another huge lack of judgement from someone who's a) smart and b) had thought about the subject.  A LOT.

Defending killing off flagship characters of Marvel is ludicrous.  Marvel has made the actors more important than the characters now and that is indefensible.  Shit, they're on their 5th Peter Parker, aren't they?  

What a downer of a movie.  I wonder if everyone would have been as happy had they killed off Batman because Bale was done with the Role?
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I went Thursday (US), and couldn't have had a better time
at a movie.

In that vein, I will say the two most memorable movie
experiences I've ever had were INFINITY WAR and now
ENDGAME.

Each time the crowd was on the edge of its collective
seats, and taking mental body blows as one.

Last night following the #ThankYouAvengers tag on Twitter
had me tearing up something moist.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 28 April 2019 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Dave Phelps wrote:
 Michael Roberts wrote:
I think you misunderstood the point of all that. They could not change history. Putting the stones back or not putting them back made no difference to history. It was to avoid the alternate realities that they created from getting all fucked up by the imbalance of not having all six Infinity Stones.

The sequence between the Hulk and the Ancient One had her showing the result of him taking the stone - one reality becomes two. He says they'll bring the stone back right when they got it and the two lines became one again. How do we get from there to "the alternate realities they created?"

No, it didn’t. You misunderstood. She shows her reality (which she specifies as /her/ reality) being damaged if the Hulk takes the Time Stone (one can assume it’s because Strange won’t have it when faces Dormammu). Hulk makes the case that if the Avengers borrow it and then return it, which he demonstrates by placing the illusory Time Stone back in the Ancient One’s interactive Back to the Future 2 display, the Ancient One’s reality will no longer be damaged. There is nothing in that sequence about merging the two timelines. 

Rhodey(?) even reiterates this at the end of the movie, when he says, “We should probably return the Infinity Stones or else we’ll end up with some really bad alternate timelines” or something to that effect. 


Edited by Michael Roberts on 28 April 2019 at 11:40am
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