Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Movies
Byrne Robotics > Movies << Prev Page of 20 Next >>
Topic: Avengers: Endgame ~ SPOILERS start Pg 7 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12748
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I watched CAPTAIN MARVEL,  and while it does have a feminist subtext, 

So again, you agree that it isn't a baseless opinion that doesn't exist as others have suggested.  I appreciate it.

----

I'd agree with Brian that CAPTAIN MARVEL has a feminist subtext. I'd also state that your opinion is baseless. The two stances are not mutually exclusive.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6004
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 2 post reply


Marvel Studios is headed by Kevin Feige.  AVENGERS: ENDGAME was directed by Anthony & Joe Russo, and written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely.  At least five different men shepherding the AVENGERS franchise at the moment. 

Where exactly is this anti-male, political feminism supposed to be coming from?



Back to Top profile | search
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2157
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Hillary Clinton.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8121
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The details for the Feminist Takeover of America were all there on her private server before she smashed and "bleach-bitted" it to conceal what she and George Soros were up to... Something to do with them being space alien vampire bat creatures who ran child-enslavement pizzerias, if I'm up on my latest batshit-crazy, right-wing agitprop. 

"But What About Her Females??"

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12748
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Where exactly is this anti-male, political feminism supposed to be coming from?

——

My understanding is the answer to this question is “cucks”. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4861
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I was talking to some work colleagues today - they are a husband and wife team.
They went to a meeting together.
The person they met greeted the man & then looked @ the woman & asked if she was his secretary.

And that, dear anti feminists, is why you are so full of crap with your whining & complaining.

Men will NEVER know what it feels like to be treated like that. We will NEVER know what it feels like to wonder whether we will be instantly demeaned & under appreciated, to know that they will have to justify their position & why they should be allowed in the room before the meeting starts.

Not because the person wants to know if they are capable, but because you are a woman.

So just shut up. For the love of God, please, just shut up.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4861
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

And for those that say women should be fighting back without making men look stupid. I ask why? Because that’s what men have been doing to women since the year dot.

Hurts doesn’t it? Suck it up, women have thousands of years of this on you.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

And for those that say women should be fighting back without making men look stupid. I ask why?

Two wrongs don't make a right?  IMO, it's insulting to women to reduce their approach to the same as men's.  Turning the tables is questionable and  I'm not sure that putting men in the place of women will lead to equality.


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


There was nothing false in my statement, Andy, and yours is still wrong. The phrase "MeToo" may have been coined in 2006, but it was not a movement at that time. It only became one in 2017

The MeToo movement has been around since 2006 and was, according to their own website, a movement within 6 months of being established.  There's no arguing that the Weinstein situation fueled the movement but to claim that it didn't exist until 2017 isn't reality.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'd agree with Brian that CAPTAIN MARVEL has a feminist subtext. I'd also state that your opinion is baseless. The two stances are not mutually exclusive.

My opinion that there is a feminist subtext is baseless yet you agree that there is a feminist subtext?  


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Where exactly is this anti-male, political feminism supposed to be coming from?

Brie Larson confirmed Marvel approached her to make Captain Marvel a “big feminist movie.”


Edited by Andy Mokler on 11 May 2019 at 3:16pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 298
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Circular argument.

Again, it all comes down to you thinking feminism is "bad."

I repeat, it's not. 

Feminism isn't anti-male and if you feel threatened or bothered by it, it's your problem.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Feminism isn't anti-male and if you feel threatened or bothered by it, it's your problem.

The problem is you choosing to ignore what I'm saying, misrepresenting, and assuming things that aren't true.

You have repeatedly accused me of thinking feminism is bad and that simply isn't true.

You keep suggesting that I'm threatened by equality and that isn't true.

How Disney(among others) is choosing to illustrate and represent feminism and that they are using their movies to do it is what I have a problem with.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12748
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

My opinion that there is a feminist subtext is baseless yet you agree that there is a feminist subtext?   

——-

No, your opinion that it is politicizing and alienating and emasculating of men is baseless. Or do you not understand what subtext means? Feminism has been rooted in Carol’s character from the time she was named /Ms./ Marvel, and no one would deny that. Feminism is rooted in Wonder Woman as well. CAPTAIN MARVEL doesn’t shy away from the idea that some of the obstacles she faced in her life are based on her gender, but as I stated upthread, there is nowhere where Carol ever identifies or blames sexism or misogyny or even men as an issue in her life. It’s a general underdog message typical of superhero origins. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12748
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Where exactly is this anti-male, political feminism supposed to be coming from?  

Brie Larson confirmed Marvel approached her to make Captain Marvel a “big feminist movie.” 
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/02/12/brie-larson-confir ms-marvel-wants-to-make-captain-marvel-a-big-feminist-movie/

——

If you don’t want people thinking you are ComicsGater, don’t use a ComicsGate source for your arguments.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

No, your opinion that it is politicizing and alienating and emasculating of men is baseless.

Well, it is political, it has alienated plenty of men and it has emasculated many of the male characters so I don't agree with you at all.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2618
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

If you don’t want people thinking you are ComicsGater, don’t use a ComicsGate source for your arguments.

I've never been on ComicsGate so I wouldn't know.  Are you questioning the quote by Larsen?  Think it's fake?  Otherwise, who cares if that site has used this one before?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8121
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

MeToo got underway in 2006, but to call it a "movement" as their website does, is somewhat kind. It did not garner much attention until it exploded across Twitter in 2017. That is when it became a political and media force. Your argument is now that major film studios courted the favor of a small, grassroots-level awareness campaign, knowing somehow, what? That years later, it would become a major phenomenon? So... they began their job of "belittling and emasculating men" well in advance of that, because... reasons?

Of course they did, Andy. Of course they did. Now you just drink your cocoa, lie down, and we'll all make certain the big, scary lady-persons don't come and unman you in the night. Sweet dreams now.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 298
Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

You have repeatedly accused me of thinking feminism is bad and that simply isn't true.

In the post right above mine you cite the supposed Marvel decision of making Captain Marvel a "big feminist movie" as being the source of this (non existent) "anti-male and political feminism" that you dislike in this movies. Ergo, you dislike feminism as a concept or simply don't understand what it actually is.

That article you cited, while biased, doesn't say absolutely anything about the film being anti-male or political (except if you think a woman protagonist with great superpowers is somehow political). 

Before you make the "I like Wonder Woman and Black Widow" defense (known in other circles as the "I have a black/gay/other minority friend" defense) let me remind you again your previous statement that choosing an actress that is a feminist activist was somehow a problem for you (or for "the fans", projection again).

So, again, the "problem" is pretty clear. It's not rocket science. And nobody is "accusing" you of anything, you're doing that to yourself.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12748
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Well, it is political, it has alienated plenty of men and it has emasculated many of the male characters so I don't agree with you at all.

------

This is the feminism of CAPTAIN MARVEL:

- Carol encountered some obstacles due to her gender from some men. She overcame them without blaming sexism, misogyny, or men.
- Carol declared that she didn't need to prove herself to a man, that man being Yon-Rogg.

Please break down how any of this is political, alienating, or emasculating to any rational man.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jozef Brandt
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2447
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:21am | IP Logged | 21 post reply


Wow, this discussion sure bogged down.  Both of the two movies' "all the women coincidentally end up in the same spot" scenes were cheesy and brought me out of their respective movie for a bit, but they weren't offensive.  Just dumb.  Those characters all did so many other really cool things that were essential to victory, why strain credulity by having them suddenly end up together in a melee involving tens of thousands combatants? 

All that said the main thing that I've disliked about both Infinity War and Endgame is the re-writing of Thanos' motivations.  In the end credits scene of Avengers, the Chitauri guy comes up to Thanos and says that to attack the Earth is to court Death and Thanos grins.  Why wasn't he still courting Death?  He wants to bring balance to the force, I mean, the universe with his snap...why not his love for Death?  That was the most interesting part of the original Thanos Quest/Infinity Gauntlet/War comics.  Do they not have the rights to the Marvel version of Death?




Edited by Jozef Brandt on 12 May 2019 at 2:21am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8121
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

My guess regarding Thanos's motives (and it is just a guess) is that his Cosmic-level necrophelia did not make him sympathetic enough to audiences or an interesting enough character to the writers. Making him a deluded do-gooder, looking to see that everyone left alive enjoys a comfortable existence filled with plenty after he's killed everyone else...? That just set better with them. He could talk about that without seeming unduly creepy or perverse. 

Another consideration in the overall timeline may have been their realization that Thor: Ragnarok would have immediately preceded their big Thanos film, and having two separate anthropomorphized female versions of Death, one right after the other, might have been clumsy.

To that end, they made Hela less a regal, dispassionate personification of Death and more a simple, scenery-chomping vengeful sibling, and altered Thanos's plan so that he could still discuss his intentions without seeming like a guy with a death fetish.

A friend pointed out that the film-makers nevertheless retained the basic visual of Starlin's Death in the Red Skull, now transformed into the guardian of the Soul Stone on Vormir.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6321
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I really wish a mod would step in and shut down the political bs that has crept into this thread.




Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11516
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

It's tiresome, but not off topic. Been meaning to post my thoughts here on the film for a few days. Saw it last Tuesday. In a nutshell, I thought it was not bad. Didn't seem long even with that huge running time, but I did think Infinity War did a better job in basically every department.

Really enjoyed the contrasting interactions in Infinity War (e.g. Iron Man and Dr Strange; Thor and the Guardians) and the way the story zipped along. Contrast the lengthy intro to this film (which, like the film as whole was, as I said, not bad) with the way Dr Strange appears in the first film to recruit Iron Man and how they and Spidey get pulled into an intergalactic adventure.

As others have mentioned, bit weird to have Captain Marvel feature so little and the character still seems to suffer here, as I thought in her own movie, with being over-powered and under-written.

Masks seem like an outrage to be torn off at the earliest opportunity,. Glad that Cap got to wear his mask towards the end at least for a little bit.

Pissed me off that basic ground rules got broken, prime amongst these that Cap's shield cannot be broken. Personally, I would prefer that only Thor can lift his hammer. That said, could have happily have accepted Cap wielding it in a pinch, but didn't like that Cap seemed to use it just as effectivley as Thor (or even more so) or that Thor chose to bugger off with Stormbreaker and not Mjolnir.

Thor going off with the Guardians felt oddly right and I look forward to seeing further adventures with these.

The end battle with every mofo felt like overkill. They really need to ditch the arachna-legged suit for Spider-Man. Putting Pepper in an Iron Man suit does not work and I wish they hadn't done it.

Hulk was truly poorly served by both Infiinty War and this film.

Chris Hemsworth has a real comedy gift and makes Thor work not matter what curves they throw him, but the character really has not been written with much consistency from film to film. Still funny though, and he still just about pulled it off.

All in all, it creaked more under its weight than Infinity War even with fewer core characters, but ultimately left me feeling positive about the whole kaboodle. And, yes, it was damn sad!

  
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11516
Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Extra comment: was really hoping it was Hawkeye that bit the bullet rather than Black Widow. His mass-murdering ways seemed to be swept under the carpet eventually, which I didn't like. If they wanted to go there, it made sense for him to be the one to pay a price. Also ridiculous that his daughter got called Hawkeye more times than him in the movie.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 20 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login